Focus in certamen: only Tremere?

Thanks. :slight_smile:
Blink and you miss "Other Magical Foci do not apply."

Hmmm... I thought the things put in action in certamen were ILLUSIONS, not spirits. In any case I see no problem having an imaginem specialist be a good certamen dude. We run certamen like normal combat, but where you can use any art combo to cause effects (including damage... yes you can cause damage with intellego auram), and where damage only makes you lose fatigue, but for regular Certamen an illusions expetrt being good at it... why not?

Cheers,
Xavi

In my case, it was more "blink when searching something like it and miss the whole paragraph"

Thanks!

I missed it the first time as well, I was looking for something explicit about the magic focus virtue, not something about how the virtue figures in to the calculations. It's possible that the intention wasn't to block a major focus that encompasses certamen, just a magic focus that isn't directly for the activity. However as this discussion demonstrates coming up with an applicable magic focus is slippery at best.

As long at everyone is OK with it I think you could allow a major focus that encompasses certaman and keep it balanced. Mechanically it should probably operate exactly the same as the minor focus, but it also gives you a bonus in several other areas. Perhaps a focus on competition that can be used with certaman and tournaments, and maybe duels as well.

I must say I really like Vulcano's idea of a Mercere protecting Redcaps, I could see myself playing a Ex Miscellanae doing this for newly integrated traditions.

Just my 2 cents worth...

I would a bit iffy personally to allow astrological focus to affect certamen as well, but I would allow taking major magical focus for "contests", which specifically includes certamen.

I personally would not allow any Major focus to also cover Certamen.

This would certainly raise bells if you had a group that included a Tremere player.

That player would want to know why they didn't get the option of choosing a Major focus that covered Certamen.

The rules clearly state that you may not have two focuses and if all Tremere have Minor Focus Certamen then they have given up any chance for a major focus.

If the Necromancers and Regoists of Tremere could take a Major Focus then they would have taken it.

Now, you could use the Flambeau model and say that the ArMa 5th listing of Minor Focus in Certamen is like the Flambeau model of Affinity in Igneum or Perdo. The minor virtue is 'common' in the house but not the exclusive way of the house.

The text of the book HoHTL suggest this might be the case as it lists dedicated 'gunslingers' of certamen as 'Disputants specialize in Certamen. They are less common than magi of other Houses expect.' p133.

The other side of the coin is also to consider that if you throw open and allow Tremere to choose to not be forced to accept the minor focus in Certamen but choose other focuses like Necromancy and Animal (type) the impact on your saga. HoHTL p131 states, 'All Tremere magi have a minor magical focus certamen ... cannot age for age match the power of other magi ... they work around this problem with diplomacy, preparation, and supporters.'

The designers of the 5th ed and HoHTL chose deliberately to limit the ability to combine Certamen with other magical focus to avoid the Tremere being able to have the focus and be able to apply the focus to non-magical combat. A Tremere has to be careful in the real world when interacting with say a Flambeau who might decide to go on a Wizard War and school them in the art of real combat. A dedicated Flambeau with a focus in say Incinerating could easily be generating totals in the near hundreds. If it a low level spell with some mastery behind it and that Tremere is in real trouble without a few friends to call upon to help get out of trouble.

Now another magi that chooses to follow the Tremere example of getting a focus in Certamen follows the same road and gives up the potential for later temporal power through magic. You'll never get the spell totals or lab totals that a non-Certamen focus would provide leaving you a 'weak link' without sodales to lean upon. Tremere work as a 'block' to cover up this deficiency.