Future of House Jerbiton

Hi all!

My personal saga has progressed to the 1270's. I'm wondering how all of you would see the House as progressing from 1220 - 1500 or so. Perhaps a few changes in the Code of Hermes can be thrown in, if you like. This is all just speculation for fun, please post your own ideas or how you think mine might change.

Projections I'm working on -

  1. The Code of Hermes will be able to be changed to allow for significantly more interactions with mundanes.

  2. The Order will survive at least in some form until 1500 :smiley:.


Changes would be

  1. The new wave of Antigones begin a major philosophical change in House Jerbiton about how 'active' they need to be. While there is internal dissent on the Antigones, they all agree wholeheartedly that their elders were just wrong about everything. There is a fair bit of evidence of this. House Jerbiton still has a number of the 'old school' Jerbiton, but they will die out by 1350 - replaced almost entirely by the new agendas, simply because they are quite passive.

  2. The sack of Constantinople and the invasions of the Mongols creates incentive for the Antigones to not just be able to protect what they have, but to be ready for it. While never warlike, the Antigones believe in actively protecting themselves and their families. By the 1260's, there are mutterings about actively joining mundane armies against various non-Christian entities. Many Jerbiton are held in breach of the code for Interfering with mundanes, though there is often a lack of incentive to punish.

  3. House Jerbiton begins to heavily invest in universities and schoolhouses by the 1250's, and many of its prominent members become known and respected mundane scholars - possibly even founding the growing Humanist movements. There are major problems between the more Church oriented Jerbiton and the new mundane scholars.

  4. By 1320, House Jerbiton practically doubles its numbers due to their capacity to screen candidates for the gift - which they do throughout universities in entrance interviews. Many 'scholarships' are granted to poorer gifted members. While the other houses have also grown, House Jerbitons outnumbers them, equalling Ex Misc numbers easily. The growing focus on teaching and screening for the gift is taken to many tribunals. The Gentle gift is prized, but many Jerbiton magi are taken without it.

  5. Many Ungifted or Hedge magi within the halls of learning or the church begin to be protected by the Jerbiton magi, so long as they agree with Jerbiton ideals. These Ancillary Jerbiton are weak in power, but great in number. The Virgillians and other hedge magic traditions move to Jerbiton for protection. By the 1400's, even the Folk witches have gained dubious standing amongst the Jerbiton.

  6. By 1400, Jerbiton magi with their various gifted hedge magi are the most numerous in the tribunals, often being over 50% of Jerbiton magi, when they bother to attend. There are Peripheral Code rulings prohibiting speaking in the vernacular during Tribunals, from more than thirty Jerbiton magi attending because they hog all the seats, and eventually seperate Jerbiton Tribunals are held.

  7. Die hard proponents of non-Catholic, non-mundane life begin a program targeting Jerbiton magi, prosecuting and beginning an us-and-them attitude, often not helped by the Jerbiton magi who begin to believe themselves civilised, their more woodsy bretheren as 'backward'. There is call from inside the house and outside it to seperate into its own 'Order', allied to the Order of Hermes. This starts as early as 1350, with many discussions involving it. Magi come to war over the issue and many Jerbiton magi die. Their attitude of 'Preparedness' did not work against non-mundane or hedge magic antagonists. The Primus of House Jerbiton begs Grand Tribunal to resolve the issue. House Jerbiton are asked to hold a vote of all of their own Magi. The votes indicate that House Jerbiton would prefer to be released from the Order, even as 'relaxed' on Mundane issues as it is. The Congregation of Jerbiton and Allied Magi is formed, and is formally signed as an ally of the Order of Hermes by 1500.

  8. The Congregation swear an Oath not dissimilar to the Code of Hermes, giving them the ability to 'Rule no more than ten leagues by ten leagues.' Magi are allowed to swear fealty, and use magic in the service of their sovereign, have 'Which religion they deem fit', war upon each other if their sovereign demands it. Otherwise they meet bi-yearly to trade and gossip and judge any who 'Have brought their prestigious order into disrepute.' By 1550 a new wave of 'Enlightened' magi begin complaining about their old fashioned and outdated magical methods, politics, and inability to cope with modern day politics.

  9. The Jerbiton cats breed like anything and become the most common familiar in the order. They are often given to Gifted magi without the Gentle Gift, with other magi assisting in the laboratory to increase the Silver Cord. Being most numerous, their leader is often the magical King of Cats, sitting in bored judgement of Catkind.

Assuming at least a vague match-up of real history and Mythic Europe pre-history...

1320-1450 is likely to bring about some changes with regard to what 'preparedness' means. The shift in power away from knights and towards the proto-concept of nations thanks to things like the hundred years war is likely to leave its mark on the Order as much as it does on the mundane powers. The rise in standing armies and professional soldiery is probably going to only help the Tremere agenda, so I could envision at least a degree of cooperation there - though what form that would take I have no idea.

I suspect it will introduce some more militant Jerbiton who, due to finding themselves on opposite sides of the same conflict, will likely start getting fairly decent at combating other magi.

Thanks to the growing prevalence of mixed-house covenants, I can see magi of other Houses getting drawn in, and eventually the significance of House will get lost to stronger bonds of ideology and location. Despite the best efforts of secretive magi, eventually things like mystery cult secrets and the like will spread - because for every secretive magus there's another who wants the secret and another still who knows the secret but doesn't care so much to hold it - and once it's out you can't easily put it back in the box.

So in summary, I can see the actual concept of Houses disintegrating. Even House Tremere probably won't survive as a House - instead becoming a political entity with members from many different lineages as they, too, broaden their nets. Fengheld is already a taste of where Tremere are likely to go.

Here's a few more topics to consider in your projections/speculations:

  • The Lotharingian Tribunal (GotF p. 29 box and other places): Will it be founded in the 1230s? Or later? Or never? If founded, it is a main test area / staging ground for Jerbiton ideas, and might either help to sort out working approaches soon, or show off many Jerbitons as fools. Given the role of Fengheld in it, the Lotharingian Tribunal might even be the first one to establish intense cooperation between realist Tremere and Jerbiton.
  • The Latin kingdom in Constantinople: Will it fall 1282, as in our history books? If so: How will the Jerbiton arrange with the Palaiologoi?
  • Aristotelian and Platonic Magic Theory (A&A p.11): Given that these - if allowed in your campaign - are just minor breakthroughs, which will be of enormous advantage for scholarly magi like many Jerbitons, you might consider whether, when and how they are achieved, and what they then mean for the organization of the Order. Are they the watershed between progressive and backwater magi? Can they bring over the more dynamic magi of other Houses to the Jerbitons?
  • Andru's agenda wrt the Church (HoH:S p. 52, but also, and more explicitly, Sanctuary of Ice p.93f): Does it in the end work, and pay off? Can he or his successors gain acceptance of magi and the Order by the Church? Can magi this way change Church attitude sufficiently to have magic no longer hindered by the Dominion?
  • The Transitionalists (HoH:TL p.41f): How will they fare? Especially wrt the Lotharingian Tribunal, its success or failure?

I am not given to speculations about this. But taking your points and those above together, you get the framework for a large scale epic campaign to run for many, many years.


This might very well change nothing.
God determines the dominion's effect on magic, not the church. We are not in M:tA :wink:

IIRC, we've even got an exemple with the sahirs. I believe that, in both B&S and tC&tD, they're impaired by the dominion, despite their practices being more accepted by their religion than hermetic magic.

Or it might change a lot. At least by Sanctuary of Ice-Andru's expectations:

Of course that Andru can be a crackpot, if a troupe so decides. But Sanctuary of Ice is published a year before ArM5, and there is still a 'sapienti sat'-type hint to Andru's agenda in HoH:S: so a troupe can as well decide that he is right, or that the truth is only found out during the campaign proper. And therefore I listed it among the things to think about for a Jerbiton-centered campaign.


Maybe in your story Mistridge does not fall to cannonballs in 1210, Grimgoth does not sell out the Order. Maybe Dominion does not prove to be one of the early form for the Weaver... maybe Tremere House will not commit the great betrayal.

Joking aside.

I would consider how the Dominion Aura is expanding and how frequent it is in ARM5 (already).
Cultivated lands having Lvl 1 Dominion Aura, and a cities with lvl 3-4, which is huge, and if you take in consideration how travel, education and population grows in the XIII century, dominion will establish roots everywhere and will threaten the whole Order and Magic. Inquisition (already in Languedoc, later with Dominicans) and general hatred towards everything magic (Magic, Faerie and Infernal realm) will increase eventually 1484 it will become widespread and deadly.

I strongly believe unless the Order finds the way to reliably use regios and move their greatest covenants out of harms reach, it might become the end of the Order. Already, in various ARM5 books you can find great covenants destroyed by mundane armies... what will happen when the Dominicans / Inquisition got to know the handful of Satan-worshipers living next door... in a castle and possess great riches. The Order's and all the current Covenants (few exceptions exist of course) greatest weakness is their location is fixed, can be reached by mundane methods and subsequently terminated.

Until this possible doom, due to the more and more stronger Dominion Auras, I would expect some of the mysteries (revised) to be fully integrated into the regular Hermetic Magic, which will help the Order to use magic even in Dominion Aura infested territories. (Like the one with which you can create rotes... the mystery's name eludes my memory and it clearly helps in Auras.)
Nationalism based deviations are to become more frequent, but I expect them to be squashed in the name of the Hermetic Code, like it happened already once in Stonehenge Tribunal... but when the Order's resources and attentions are heavily tasked elsewhere divisions will happen.

I would expect House Jerbiton to realize the greatest mystery a Hermetic Mage can found when they really start to investigate hedge traditions: non-gifted are teaching and using focused magic-like supernatural abilities, by doing so they would extend their reach and power, and in a way... it would allow them to step outside of the Hermetic Code... eventually leading to a reformation in the Order. Tensions between gifted vs non-gifted are to going to shape Hermetic Politics as it is already foreshadowed in the Hedge Magic book's story ideas.
By the way, I would assume a similar approach from the pragmatic Red Caps, what I mean Red Caps will surely want to learn some kind of a magic available for non-gifted.

Renaissance surely will reinvigorate House Jerbiton and will be the greatest time to be a progressive Hermetic Mage, it will be the Golden Age... but not for the standard Magi in ARM5.
I envision older ArchMagi to move out to Regio based Covenants. Hidden built Magical Auras are to be much more common (like the ones you can find in the Covenant book - How an Aura is changing / composed) in cities or in Castles. Regular Covenants, as we know in ARM5, are going to vanish completely as it won't be sustainable from Vis, Church and mundane enemies side. Vis gathering will completely change, apparatus usage will become more frequent and distilling Vis through alchemy will be the norm...

I theorized a way will be found to freely incorporate magic to semi-magic activities (alchemy, astrology, etc). What I mean is different than the currently (ARM5) know mysteries, I refer more like Alchemy based Corpus / Elemental magic or Astrology based Intellego not effected by Auras, similar to the already known Performance Magic.

Sorry for the long post/wall of text. Our group had a similar conversation next to couple of cold beers recently and we settled down with this future-vision.

Hermetic Numeracy, DerWish

No need to apologize I love that sort of riffing myself. I put a little bit of work into imagining how the order would look if Hermetic Theory Advanced. Both through a steady increase in the quality and availability of texts and the potential for several of the Breakthroughs mentioned in various supplements where fully integrated into Hermetic Magic.

My general conclusion was that it doesn't take more then a handful of upgrades to Hermetic magic to make Magi significantly more powerful even against the growth of dominion auras.

For instance if Conciatta's breakthroughs from LoH, and the the Philosophical Breakthroughs from A&A, were both integrated into Magic Theory casting totals would go up and penalties for foreign auras would go down. The Language of Adam could supercharge Magi's penetration while learning Sparks from Rival Magic would loosen up the vis economy.

Great thoughts! I do have to review&read again (A&A & Rival Magic) / acquire (LoH) these books.

This thread[url]Alt Setting: A Hermetic Renaissance - #13 by maine75man] has some of my other thoughts on several advances to MT.