Grand Tribunal

Assuming the players' covenant (mine's in the Rome Tribunal) sends a representative to the first Grand Tribunal after 1220 (I don't know what the canon date is), what would the likely "big issues" be for major players to jockey for their support (and take names if it isn't given)?

My only thought on this point is that many in the Novgorod Tribunal, as well as House Tremere, whose lands are either under direct threat from the Mongol hordes or who see the likely further invasion routes, might want to declare the Mongols official "enemies of the Order" so that they might be opposed without breaking the Code against interference with mundanes. The hook that the resolution would be hung on is that Mongol shamans, according to Ancient Magic, are infernalists (although of a sort of "false practice" sort as opposed to a "we love you Satan" sort). This would be opposed by House Guernicus as a grotesque over-reaction (and the usual "another power grab by Tremere" suspicion), and likely met with complete apathy for covenants west of the Rhine Tribunal.

While I welcome critiques on my "big issue," I'm really looking for other issues that have become pressing over the last 33 years so that there's a huge stew of shifting alliances so the players can't vote party line for another faction at the Tribunal without serious repercussions.

I think 1228 is the first GT in the canon timeline, with the 33 year schedule started in 832(I think?). At that point, the Novogrod Tribunal could be clamoring about the Mongols...but that's a year after Ghengis' death and the Mongols wouldn't really tackle the Rus until 1237.

Then the Mongols would really attack Europe in 1241-- well after the Grand Tribunal, attacking Hungary and Bulgaria. The message of the Mongol threat arrived in Hungary in 1229, but that could shift a little...

You could make it an option, but that might be a tough fight-- you'd have to convince everyone that these Mongols represented a massive threat, and you'd have to do it with only a few years to build your case and in the face of the fact that they Mongols retreated after the Battle of the Kalka River in 1223, and hadn't been seen in years-- despite the fact that the Mongols won at the Kalka. That's a very prescient group of magi, or perhaps some that had been accidentally involved in the battle itself.

Hmmm, that could be a very cool adventure. :slight_smile:


I agree that pre-1240 is early for the Order to worry about Mongols; that's in part why I picked it. Only the prescient would be able to see the danger, and I think House Tremere, which is basically a military organization with a heavy investment in intelligence, would understand the Mongol capability and see the obvious threat to their holdings.

On the same note, since the Mongol threat isn't yet obvious, there's a great possibility for a large "you're hysterical and trying to break apart the Order with your schemes" contingent, which will probably prevail in 1228(ish) but would have lost a lot of credibility on being able to assess threats to the Order come 1261(ish) . . . which, of course, could be part of the Tremeres' long-term plan in bringing up the issue.

But, since the Horde isn't at the gates, there'd also be other issues on the Tribunal's mind, and I'm looking for what else might be considered.

Two random ideas...

A group of magi have become concerned with the increasing numbers of scholarly "hedge wizards" being produced by the various Universities springing up around Europe. They petition the Grand Tribunal to name these Learned Magicians threats to the Order and renew the policy of "join or die." (also might let you bring in the new Hedge Magic sourcebook)

The magi of Voluntas in Stonehenge and the magi of Horsingas in Loch Leglean both wish to bring charges against the other for Interfering with Mundanes by taking part in conflicts between the Normans and the Scots. Neither covenant recognizing the other Tribunals rulings in the matter and demand that the Grand Tribunal here their case.

Somehing I think should be an issue at the 1228 GT (and is in our saga) is some sort of "Rhine on the Rise" politics. The Rhine tribunal is losing resources and there is a Hermetic wasteland between Rhine and Novgorod. Some sort of border dispute initiated by the Rhine magi to get a formal border established seems natural. With Rhine wanting this formal border much further east than traditional ideas of what is Rhine, but still a bit west of the area witch is under active use/control of any Novgorod covenant.

There is also a canon plot going on establishing a new tribunal between Rhine and "France", I think.

And there is a crusade brewing (or starting?) against the heathens in the Lituania-area.

And we should have another crusade in the south of France soon (or is that allready finished?)

We have a crusade that sacked Constantinopel, and any Jerbitons surely will work that in as an issue to get resources to rebulid, and probably will claim foul play by some (old enemies) in the Rome tribunal.

And then you might have a few more border-conflicts between tribunals with covenants established on the borders either being claimed or denied by both/all tribunals. Good areas for this is just south of the Rhine (is the river or the mountains the border between Greater Alps and Rhine), probably the same on the border between "scotland" and "England. And my favorite: the Isle og Man. Full of magic and not part of any of the three bordering tribunals.


If you want to press the claim, declaring the shamans to be enemies of the order might be easier to swallow. Then you have to negotiate how much the rest of the Mongols are grogs or not, but you have authorization to strike against the Mongols. How much you strike is up for further discussion in the future :slight_smile:



Our saga is in a similar place, and because we wanted the saga to settle in a little we moved the Grand Tribunal forward to 1235.

The saga is set in Novgorod so the Mongols are a very real threat but after the early incursions, the Russians aren’t expecting them to return. Issues at the last Novgorod Tribunal included:

  1. Various allegations, and counter allegations of Infernalism
  2. The invasion of fey by strange animal headed beasts
  3. Rogue Covenant at Pripet Maior

See ... essage/522

I expect these to spill over into the Grand Tribunal and specifically:

  1. Rhine response to the Wizards march (1234) on Pripet Maior
  2. House Bjornaer (and Crinteria) response to the above
  3. House Tremere and Translyvanian tribunal intervention to ward off Rhine ambitions in Poland and/or the Baltic states
  4. Investigation of the destruction of Russian fey (1225 to 1235) led by house Merinitia as the players seemed profoundly disinterested..

I’m hoping to see some sort of conflict between the Rhine and Novgorod in 1236/1237 as a shadow of what happens in the mundane world. I.e. the invasion of Russia by the Swedes and the Teutonic knights taking advantage of the chaos created by the Mongols.

I’m prepared to see this escalate into a 2nd schism war between tribunals (rather than houses) initially the Rhine expanding east into Novgorod. Depending on what the players do at the Grand Tribunal.

I don’t see the Order reacting in any coherent way to the Mongol threat. Historically Western Europe did very little, and I very much see events in the faerie and magic realms as shadows of the mundane and vice versa.

If you do plan a conflict with the Mongols then consider using the Chinese magician Yeh-lu Chu'tsai. See


Accepting the Lotharingian Tribunal that will form in 1228 (see GotF)

Or an Ultima Thule Tribunal :wink: (we did this in 4th edition)
Or a renewed Val-Negra Tribunal 8)