Hellbound Europe

[Akriloth]

@Marko Markoko

If you are asking for honest opinions, I will be honest and say I don't like it. I mean, it is innovative and creative. But aesthetically, it rubs me the wrong way. It makes the Divine a generic fantasy concept, like the gods of lawful good from AD&D. And it resembles nothing of the Divine from Holy Scripture.
Now mind you, I am a religious sort of guy. Greek Orthodox. Christian. In Ars Magica, I accept the fictionalized version of religion as part of a fictionalized setting. To me, drawing inspiration from real world religion is part of what makes Ars Magica special. A generic race of super beings or higher spirits does nothing for me.

Now, as a SciFi concept, if you and your troupe are into that, then great. I do admire the creativity and innovation behind it. Sorta like saying "I think you are a great painter, and I can see that in your work. This particular portrait is not at all attractive to me, but maybe someone else will buy it".

Not trying to stir argument or debate. Just giving you my own personal opinion. Out of respect.

It's quite appreciated! I do want honest opinions. If I could be so bold as to offer a rebuttal, though? I think Ars Magica was already starting to drop a ball that I've simply finished dropping. It never rubbed me the right way that monotheistic religions got to be "basically true but your God doesn't really think X is sinful" while pretty much every other religion got "lol, your gods are fake soulless spirits made out of the stories you told of them." And I happen to like myself a bit of cynicism in my settings, so the direction I took it was making monotheism less reliable rather than making every other religion moreso (which also would've required a lot more work on my part, if I can confess to some laziness).

So there's my reasoning. But I do appreciate your viewpoint.

@YR7

I like it.

Hooray!

The only bit that seems artificial is the part about stripping the fallen angels of all virtues. This seems especially unbecoming of the good angels, which after all are still good as their roles imply. I would suggest the Divine angels originally intended to merely imprison the Infernal angels, but inadvertently created a prison so mystically removed from Heaven that it became Hell, which corrupted the angels trapped within, turning them into demons. You might want to look to The Death Gate Cycle series of books for inspiration there - this is part of the background story there, about how the "good" wizards/angels trapped the bad ones in a prison that was meant to enlighten them and instead corrupted them.

Another off bit is how and why the demons could get to act in the real world, once they have been imprisoned. I would suggest that this, too, was unintentional. While the prison remained impervious to demon's attempts to get out, the unexpected mystical bond with lack of virtue allowed the demons to manifest aspects of themselves around acts of human depravity and lack of virtue. The same ties also bind the souls of sinners to hell, allowing hell to swell and grow with each one's death.

Oooh. You know, I like both of these ideas, they don't seem quite as forced as what I was going with. I'll probably end up implementing them... Thanks!

Finally, I think the onslaught of demons appears too organized as you describe it. Beings with no virtue will not be able to coordinate so well. Instead, have it initially be an outpouring of a disorganized host of demons, into both heaven and the real world. In time, demonic warlords will come to dominate other demons (and aligend forces) locally, especially as the few demons capable of patience and cunning will be able to exert their influence. A kingdom led by diabolists may also arise; as they can have some virtues, they may, with enoguh Infernal power, outplan and outmaneuvere the true demons.

Demonic warlords and diabolist army leaders are probably something that would've started coming about over the fifteen years after the event... The reason for the unity of destruction in the beginning was, more than anything, the simple fact that the demons had all popped out in roughly one spot and sort of just fawned out from there to do their dastardly deeds.

I would also would like to learn more about this "Light of Creation", especially as in how it's related to a covenant in the Greater Alps. One of my past designs was to have the Realms separated by Faerie powers during the Titanomachia; in that setting, the Heavens were separated from Earth in the Pillars of Hercules. (Tartarus was separated from Earth in a Zoroastrian site in Persia (possibly the bridge of souls in the Elbruz mountains), Oceanus was separated in the Isle of Rugen, and the fires of Hel in the Pyramids of Egypt; thus all four elements, and with them the entire Magic Realm, were separated from the mundane world in the four corners of the world.) Is there some similar focus for the "Light of Creation" at the covenant's site?

Well, this'll be a longer answer, so just know your curiosity is noted and these questions will be answered when I make a more thorough article on the Light of Creation (and probably a few other features of the supernatural world while I'm there).

@Ezechiel357

I think it is a bold take on creating a coherent background still compatible with Ars cosmology and history, so cudos for the work.

Thanks! It takes a bit of tangoing, though I think I did it on "easy" mode.

I won't challenge your background history because it is what you need to tell your Saga.
Two things jump to my mind:

• Considering Tremere preparation for war and their strongholds in Transylvania Tribunal, it is likely one of the safest place. The house is probably levying heavy "residence" taxes for magi looking for protection there. Not in virtus or silver, but in knowledge and seasons of work - foreign magi are allowed to stay as long as the contribute to the war effort;

Oooh, very interesting thoughts, especially since transylvania is so closeby for the destruction... They'd probably be able to capitalize on magi who didn't have time to run anywhere else or who wanted to rely on the strong military preparation of the Tremere. I'll definitely consider this when writing up what's going on with the buckled-down Order.

• As SG, you should think on how powerful are demons powers: if they are able to tap into the "Divine" energy, does it make them all-powerful, potentially bypassing MR ? Does it grant them power of creation ?

I don't think I'd have them bypass MR for stylistic and balance reasons, which I have justified at the moment by saying they basically shattered the Faithspring to get their power when they invaded Heaven. More of what they got back was the power they had lost when the Faithspring was made, rather than stealing the power of miracles, especially since any "miracle" power they got would either be divided among all the demons (in which case each demons has like one person's prayers worth and it's pretty flimsy) or it just got divided among the biggest bossy demons like the false gods and princes of Hell (which would actually be kind of interesting as a setting element but wouldn't affect the abilities of most demons directly).

Anyway, interesting take on the world cosmogony.

Thanks for the compliment.