Hermetic Architecture and lil' silvery things...

My copy of TMRE arrived a couple of days ago, and I just finished reading it... A couple questions stand out;

When using Hermetic Architecture to improve an aura, could one theoretically go from zero to ... uhm ... hero(?) in one go? That is enchant one set of items (one room in a Mystic Tower) with the following effects:

The Insignificant aura CrVi 64
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +1

The Slight aura CrVi 69
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +2

The Weak aura CrVi 74
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +3

The Acceptable aura CrVi 79
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +4

The Good aura CrVi 84
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +5

The Excellent aura CrVi 89
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +6

The Brilliant aura CrVi 94
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +7

The Perfect aura CrVi 99
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +8

The Ultimate aura of Doom from the Swamp CrVi 104
Increases the Magical aura in a room by +1, to a maximum of +9

The total levels of this rather funny enchantment would be; 756 levels for a total of 76 vis needed for the enchantment, and seeing as a room made from Hard Stone would have a Material and Size of 24... Well, you see the problem. But if one uses the structural aspects of Hermetic Architecture, do you in truth enchant the ROOM, or do you enchant the (in this case) Semi Precious Small orbs? Because if the latter, then you could theoretically have ANY number of Architectural enchantments on any room. (I'd find that nifty...)

Also; when enchanting these smaller items that are needed for Hermetic Architecture, can they be enchanted all at the same time, or do you have to spend a season per? (Prob'ly the last, just wanting to make sure)

Furthermore if I were to enchant said Mystic Tower with a powerful ReTe effect to move it wherever i want it to go, would the aura of the room enchantment still work? (I'm guessing yes here as well, but mroe questions are fun!

that looks possible... (but implausibly difficult - see below!)

no - you round the vis & spaces needed per effect, so it needs
7+7+8+8+9+9+10+10+11 = 79 spaces, 79 pawns as you enchant the effects. An since this is using Invested devices, the 79 spaces of effects take a further 79 pawns to open for investment. (in one season...) 79 is more than fits in a Room (24!)

Needing 79 spaces for the 9 invested effects does unfortunately mean that you run out of spaces long before you are finished - when you've only reached Aura 3, 'cos you've used 22 out of the 24 spaces for a hard stone Room.

For the actual Room with Aura 3, via 6 HG devices, you use 624 Vim pawns to open the 6 devices and 622 pawns to instill 6 identical effects, so you've used 276 pawns to get from Aura 0 to +3.

It's not perhaps as easy as you thought?

it's a 2 step process.
You actually want to enchant the Room, but it won't fit in your lab (Boo!), so you use the Mystery stuff to make N devices so that they follow the specified rules and provide the required enchantment spaces for the ROOM.
You then repeat the enchantments in all of them (duplicating them), then bind them togther to affect the Room. The individual component devices won't work on their own - they have to be part of the Room to work; and you can't vary the number required.

You need a small device which has 24 enchantment spaces, to match the 24 spaces that a Room should have. Then you need (size factor) or SIX devices, no more and no less. The capacity of these devices is duplicated, like the enchantments you'll place - you don't get 6*24 spaces for 144 spaces of effec - you just get 24 spaces, six times over, to repeat 24 spaces of effects 6 times exactly.

(if you don't use all the spaces for the HG enchantments - as above, we had 24 spaces in each, and used 22 to get Aura 3, the reaming (2) space can be used for anything you like, so you could instill 6 different 2-space effects in the 6 devices, using ordinary, non-Mystery enchantment.)

any time you like - indeed, anyone can open them for you if it helps.

You do need Hermetic Geometry to instill the effects, if the effects are going to work together to combine into one. You don't have to be the sole HG magus - you could have a team of Cultists working, one on each component device...

yes, if the room and devices move together, they will work together (Cool!)

If you had a team of 60 Cultists and lots of Vis, you could have 10 teams of 6 Cultists each making sets of 6 devices-to-enchant-a-room, and each team invests an "enchance Aura from N to N+1".
The 60 magi could in principle complete their work in 2 seasons (60 magi for 1 season to open 60 devices, then 60 magi enchanting for 1 season to installl effects, up to level 104 (hmmm - maybe not in 1 season???)) and then work 10 ritual binding spells to tie the 10 groups of 6, and activate them all.

d31m0z - you do realise the heremtic Architecture is perhaps largely aimed at elder magi with high Arts Score and Magic Theory, apprentices, and any other assistance they can get.

It isn't seriously intended to encourage Junior magi into ambitious projects enchanting whole tower.

(Enchanting a whole longship would work quite well, or a whole field... the Vis requirements are much more modest... but it still takes stashes of Vis and lots of time.)

Hehe, thanks mate... I was wondering about the mechaniks of the thing, was already full well aware of the HORRENDOUS price. But then it could be viable to instill the last two effects into said Movable Tower and pop around until one could find a nice and comfy spot with an aura of 7. But if one were to enchant the entire Tower, that'd fit a total of 280 levels of effect, these would then be the Movable Tower thing as well as a nifty teleport spell (would be cool to think about an area of the Tower you'd like to be in, and then be there) and a PeVi effect that would lessen everybody else's casting totals by a set number (as per a magical item in the Rhine book) and we're set.

Well, after getting those three effects to cover the entire tower, could one then enchant the separate rooms/floors with additional effects? Say the aura increase? (btw, the aura would only be used in the laboratory, so one could skip the li'l silvery things)

And before you ask; yes, I am megalomanic...

:blush: We didn't spell this out in detail - but... :blush:

:bulb: The Mystery is about "how do you enchant something so large that you can't fit it into a lab". It provides a mechanism, a binding ritual, and an end result.
:bulb: The end result is that the Large Thing behaves exactly as though it is enchanted as a single thing in a Giant Lab. (If you had a Giant Lab, you could do the same thing more cheaply and quickly, but we assume you don't have a Giant Lab.)
:bulb: Since you cannot enchant a whole thing, and then independently open a part of it to enchant separately, you cannot enchant a Huge Thing and then a Large (or even Small) part of it. :exclamation:

If you enchant one Room in a Tower, you can still enchant other Rooms, but cannot enchant the whole tower 'cos it's already been "opened for enchantment" (by Mystery means) and enchanted (ditto). Similarly, if you enchant the whole Tower by the Mystery, you then can't enchant the individual rooms.
Same as if you had a staff with gems - you can either enchant the individual gems, or the whole thing... and you have to make a choice when you start.

(And, no, I'm not going to answer questions about what happens if you combine Great Talisman and Hermetic Geometry to enchant a whole Tower in bits... Let's say instead that Great Talisman is incompatible with Hermetic Geometry and you must instead find a Lab big enough to fit your tower before making it into a Talisman... :stuck_out_tongue: )

Sounds like a challenge.

Shrink the Mystic Tower
Muto Terram 50
Shrink the target structure by a linear factor of 20.
(Base 4, +1 Stone, +3 extra shrinking, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +3 Structure)

Turn that into a constant-effect device, which is still easier than the levels involved in raising the aura, and you're good to go. I assumed each extra magnitude led to a factor of 10 reduction in volume. If you count a factor of 8 instead (per the guideline), you end up with a 16-fold reduction. Still not too shabby.

It would definitely be easier to use a circle... if the tower is round, does its footprint on the ground count as a circle?

One unrelated but maybe poignant question about Hermetic Architecture... if you have Holy/Chthonic/Faerie Magic as well, could you use it to modify other realms' auras ??

Shouldn't that be a ritual (due to level)?
Also, why not make it concentration, put the effect in an item, have the item maintain concentration, then it can stay shrunk for the entire season.

The level would have to be above 50. Level 50 is OK. But if you think the effect itself is powerful enough to be a ritual, then I am undone. Furthermore, you can have items with effect levels above 50, so long as the R/D/T themselves do not require a ritual (at least, that's what I've been told). So Year or Boundary would be out, but this is OK.

Because I interpret maintained-concentration effects as being interrupted at Sunrise/Sunset even if you have an environmental trigger - unless you are there to concentrate on the spell every morning and evening. You probably don't want to wager your lab and whole enchantment process on that.

How about drawing a circle around the tower, then use target: structure, duration: circle ? Isn't that a possible tweak?

(You'd have to build yourself a lab inside the circle afterwards, of course...)

Or just use a lab with the Major Structure Flaw Outdoors.

Yeah, but that would be cheating. :laughing:

Actually, while the rules for labs generally say they must have XX floor space and YY minimum height, and imply must have a roof - the idea is right.

There are many times when you might consider setting up a lab for a one-off enchantment, despite the cost in time and effort to do so, just to avoid the effort of using Hermtic Architecture.

There are other times when you simply can't do it...

While we're on the topic of Hermetic Architecture, I noticed that some of the effects listed as "momentary" wore off slowly over the course time. Is this a special property of these Mystery spells or is this true of all Hermetic magic that affects large structures. Or am I missing a different quality that makes these spells special?



If you're referring to the spells that make a room or a structure "geometrically perfect", they wear off in the same way that being cleaned magically wouldn't prevent them from progressively becoming dirty again. The spell imparts perfection to the target, but doesn't maintain it actively - it's a Momentary duration - and so normal wear and tear on the structure will, in time, make things go out of alignment.