Hermetic law advice requested

Xavi, a magus with parma is protected from feeling dislike of other gifted individuals but it doesn'.t contain the effect of his own gift and anyone without parma will still dislike him. An apprentice's gift is no less a problem than that of a gauntled magus. Mundane servants at a tribunal will be those with plenty of experience dealing with multiple magi, be briefed that their feelings are an artifact rather than genuine insight into the character of the attendees and have the strength of will to act accordingly. They will still have a horrible time.

Ezzelino, I say the case is a slam-dunk not because teaching parma early is legally defined as endangering the Order but because the argument that in this case it actually is endangering the Order would be so compelling. The Magi of the Order are well aware that the parma magica is the greatest strategic secret they have, the biggest edge they have both an organisational and individual level against rival magicians. An apprentice has not taken the oath so they are not a member. And this apprentice, who is demonstrably capable of using what he knows and probably of passing it on, was just caught trying to deceive the whole Tribunal - therefore OoH cannot trust him. I.e. the master taught the most critical secret of the Order to an untrustworthy outsider. He wasn't even on hand to stop the lad going AWOL.

The only defense I can think of would be to admit scrying and claim that he was monitoring the apprentice and his doings closely via the AC and had a "kill switch" ready.

Well, I just think it isn't :slight_smile:
Frowned upon? Most likely.
A violation of the Code? Not quite.
There are several ways that the teacher could justify his actions and claim that the Parma's secret was never in danger; and that in fact, by teaching Parma to the apprentice, he averted a greater danger to the Order.

That is exactly the point. Those servants used to magi WILL notice that the "apprentice" (camougfklaged grog) is NOT Gifted, or is Gentle GIfted for what they can perceive. He does not feel funny. If asked they can point that out.

Xavi

Depends if anyone present has met the boy before. Otherwise the gentle gift is not unknown and if anyone comments "the apprentice" can agree that that's what he has, shyly so as not to invite further conversation. The grog's cover is easier to break - he can't resist spells, can't hold his own in hermetic conversation, can't engage in certamen (get another apprentice to challenge him so it doesn't look like bullying) - but unfortunately a fake apprentice need not mean a fake master.

My understanding, based on the description of the Parma Magica Ability in ArM5 p66, is that it is "only known by Hermetic magi." Not apprentices who are not counted as members of the Order and cannot be relied upon to keep its secrets, only fully-trained Hermetic magi who have passed their gauntlets and taken the Hermetic oath. As far as I'm concerned any magus who teaches an apprentice how to raise the Parma before their initiation is as good as dead if anyone finds out, no matter what justification they come up with.

I agree with Aurelius. Of the Orders many secrets, Parma Magica is the greatest and the one that they would least like the enemies of the order to know about. It is only taught to those that swear the oath. I've always seen it as such a big issue that books on parma simply don't exist. The danger of them falling into the wrong hands is too terrible.

Apprentices are not part of the Order, until they swear the oath, they have no right to know the secrets, just like they have no right to vote at tribunal. Only by accepting the onerous and very serious duties the Oath places upon them are they allowed to access the greatest secret, and one of the greatest powers, of the Order, the Parma Magica.

You know, this talk about Parma just reinforces my idea that Parma is the Mystery of the Order... and perhaps should be/is handled as a Mystery Initiation with the Gauntlet as the test you must undergo to be initiated.

Been there, done that. Makes swearing the code much more than just reciting a few random words.

Cheers,
Xavi

Hands down, this would be the sneakiest angle to work once they've botched the "bring it to the lawman" approach. Pay some apprentice to challenge the the imposter-apprentice. They know that neither of the imposters is the actual NPC Magus, so it's safe to do so for the apprentice they're using for the trap. A grand enough spectacle will keep the tribunal/party entertained enough to let you get some furtive spell-casting on the fake-Magus (and if he shouts "foul," you can always counter that he's just raising a ruckus because he doesn't want everyone to watch his apprentice get trounced.)

In terms of SG's duties for this situation, though, we all seem to be missing the meta-perspective. This is a choice about the nature of the Order in your saga. Just how paranoid are they about security? I mean, do they really just accept that anyone who claims to be a member must be a member? What kind of security is actually in place at these events? You're talking about an era when arriving at someone's doorstep wearing the right coat of arms was all the proof you needed when it came to the nobility, but you're also talking about the Order of Hermes -- they're not exactly a secret cult, but then again, they're a not exactly secret cult.

So the choice of how easy it is to blow the whistle on this particular charade is going to speak volumes to your players about what does and does not fly within the Order, and markedly affect their opinions about the political climate they live in.