By modern standards it "violent and brutal" you say?
I would prefer to not get into specifics to avoid politics, but "violent and brutal" is only a little different today than from most periods of history.
And to some degree thats mostly because of reduced personal human interaction.
The most common homicide in medieval times IIRC, was the result of tavern brawls. Exactly in what way does that make that time more "violent and brutal" than today?
Due to alcohol restrictions, that happens less often today (while still being the #1 reason for violence), and if there is a fight at a nightclub or something, anyone hurt badly will nearly always be at a hospital within the hour, or even much less, meaning injuries that would have killed a thousand years ago, usually doesnt today.
About violence:
I just read a lot of stories in Marc Bloch's book.
Is there any example in your saga when magi pooled their power to make something big? Longevity rituals may be an obvious possibility but it's not sure the magi will make them collectively.
DIREWOLF75:
I mean the cultural layer as a conditioning to behave 'right'. The difference between civilized people from barbarians. Propose a better English word, my dictionary doesn't offer any.
Vasili:
I think there are not so much magical secret to share. Especially for older covenants. Books?
If a magus writes a very good book, will he share it in exchange for other books? Or his covenant keeps it hidden to help only each other? What is more reasonable? I suppose he's not a Bonisagus.
Anyhow during centuries a lot of books accumulate. Many summas and 40-100 tractatus per art especially in the beloved ones. Cooperative covenant members can write these without any book trade.
Maybe you see it otherwise. What other secrets is it possible to steal yet?
No, not longevity stuff. IMS you learn A LOT about a magus, including all hius hermetic V&F when you develop the LP. As such, this kind of stuff is not readily shared. It is a kind of rape for magi. Longevity experts are both respected and feared because they know this kind of stuff. The best LP dudes are not necessarily the ones with the highest CrCo total, but the ones that shut their mouths about what they learn. They tend to coiuncide, but not it is not imperative.
IMS magi have collaborated to create big stuff. Big stuff is the equivalent of SAM missiles. Loads of penetration et al. They also collaborated (communion) to cast several big spells when creating the covenant, and invested in some items collectively. In a warzone you need to collaborate.
In previous sagas, magi were less interdependent in a lot of cases, each one pursuing his/her own interest and only gathering to share resources and efforts when there was something BIG at stake.
Thank you, having read it in part(havent had time to go through completely yet), and so far i can say that without any doubt, i have zero reason to change my opinion.
It concerns ONLY homicide and offers nothing what so ever to base any assumption about any persons general tendency towards violence.
The study even says it pretty much itself, 3rd sentence page 17.
"Homicide, however, is most probably the only crime..."
Furthermore, regardless the writers intent, the study is filled with groupings, incomplete data and estimates adding up to a huge amount of potential pitfalls.
All in all, the study shows that there has been variations in the number of recorded murders within certain limited localities or regions of Europe and that over time, the most common trend has been one of reduced numbers compared to population.
And Eisner clearly states that repeatedly. So, as a basis for claiming "people were very violent then" its absolute rubbish as support. That doesnt make it rubbish as a whole.
Ill have to read it all before i give any more opinion on how well made it is, but Eisner certainly seems intent on trying to make the best of what he does have for raw data(not much at all really).
Well, not MY saga, only times i´ve been ST have been an exception for one reason or another. Im no good at it.
The stories i´ve been part of(more often running NPCs then a PC), yes good cooperation have been fairly common, especially in 2 sagas, one of which is my by now possibly infamous superpowered one, but hey, they faced down the mongols invasion, all of it, and an extremely well supported and equipped such mongol invasion it was indeed, most surprising part is that not more of the PCs died at the end(i had some nasty stuff prepared with some schamans that didnt even get into play, by total chance one PC got a great roll that blasted the whole pack before they were finished and then i rolled badly with several other magical and mundane attacks both, just scratching them slightly instead of total roasting or shredding).
But of course it differs, sometimes greatly. But players here have fully realised that cooperation in AM can be very effective, so most of them run with that most of the time.
Cultural lining is one reasonably common term for it.
Not sure if i heard layer used for it before but its not terrible either.
And yes i understood what you meant with it from the start.
The problems begins appearing once you start asking questions like, "-civilised according to who´s definition?" or "-what is barbaric?".
The almost perfect example is some of the early meetings between Japanese and European cultures(both considered the other side barbaric and inferior). Same with early clashes between India and Europe as well as India and Persians.
I'm curious, having been able to access the abstract only of the crimonology article cited above...
What kind of data allows them to estimate crime rates in the 13th century?
The "pre-national data period" rates come from historical records. The authors have done a sort of grand analysis of other published data. There are 374 sets of historical data that each cover an average of 16 years, and areas with an average population of 130,000. The authors say that the pre-national data period sources are:
a) Coroner records
b) Records of judicial indictments
c) Court records (including things like church courts which sometimes banish/exile people convicted of murder).
Civilized thing when someone pays for things in the supermarket but if a big catastrophe or riot happens the cultural lining falls and he loots the stores like a barbarian.
