Allow me to simplify the matter.
All I seek is assurance that you pose no threat to myself or other Hermetic magi, and that you are not going to get us involved in trouble of any sort with temporal authorities.
Arnau closes his eyes until they are just thin lines and looks at Roberto suspiciously. He is not sure if this is posse or the Flambeau really believes all that crap he is throwing his way. Well, this is not the first self righteous trigger-happy hubris-filled hermetic the Brothers have met in their centiuries-long existance, and probably it will not be the last. So he decides to look again at his battle gear, clearly expensive, and think with what has always served the Brothers: their purse. Maybe they can even find a business opportunity here if they calm him down. That ship-burning thing seems to have him really worried....
pardon me if I say so, Monsieur, but I would be wary of accusing someone of misdeeds without proof. The Fire Brothers do not go around setting fire to ships just because they fancy it. In fact, I am not aware of any of our brothers having been in a naval engagement recently. So, unless you have proof of what you are saying I would like you to take back your statement and accusation against our honor. We would be extremely happy to help you find the perpetrator and bring him down if that is a problem that the Order of Hermes wants to get solved (for a price, of course; we can talk about that later) but I assure you on the honor of the Fire Brothers that it is not our actions that have seen those ships burn. We have been quite busy conquering islands and small stuff like that. :mrgreen:
As we have already told you we do not display our abilities in front of the common population. What you saw in Sant Miquel is a perfectly timed and orchestrated reputation developing herself. Sant Miquel is a backwater if I ever saw one, and doing such displays in these places help us become legendary when it comes the time to sit at the negotiating table with a patron. But that patron will never have seen our abilities at work, so he will not perceive us as a treat. I thought you understood this the first time I told you, since you are obviously smart enough to be a member of the Order of Hermes.
We will not join the Order. We have worked for the Order in the past and expect to work for her in the future as well. In fact, there is a bunch of us working for some covenants in the Levant right now, so this is far from an extraordinary activity for us. However, right now we are working for the local ruler, and, unless we are whoefully mistaken (and I think we are not) these lands belong to king Jaume, not the Order of Hermes. As the representative of king jaume at the place, in fact you could say that Sant Miquel belongs to me right now. He laughs at this last idea.
I am still extremely puzzled at your "protection" idea. We have not harmed a single hair of the villagers of Sant Miquel. Still you walk in and accuse me in my own tent of being dangerous to them? This land is not yours to protect and even if it were we have shown no danger to the mundane population. We are here because we have a mission from our current employer and we honor our deals. We are here to assess the presence of a spellcaster around here. We have already found one, you, but we will perform a good recon of the terrain to ensure you are the only one. As long as you do not interfere with his activities I am fairly sure that Pere d'Urgell will allow you to stay around without problems, nut it would be better if you do not try to send his rightful representatives out. He is not the kind man that looks with a generous eye to drawbacks, you know.
As for joining the order, this has been discussed in the past with higher authorities than yours. It was deemed unwise for us to join given our abilities, so I think I will decline the invitation. I keep my own invitation of having mutton and wine with you though, since we are generous hosts. 
So you are welcome to get into more comfortable gear to enjoy the meal.
With that, Arnau takes his cane, an aswood stick with a dragonhead pommel, and invites you to join him in the revelry outside.
I am not referring to temporal power, but magical authority. You are having trouble with interpreting my words. I apologize. My Catalan is poor and out of practice. But as I assess you here and now, I no longer think you are as dangerous as I had originally feared.
Roberto takes off his gear and gets comfortable
So you were once auxiliary troops to the Flambeau of old, eh? I myself was trained as an almogavar as an apprentice. Not the traditional Aragoneese or Catalonian style. Castilian. We were more of a mix of infantry and caballero vilianos. My former master, Joel Muniz, was their leader. We were the Sergovia company. We were at Las Navas, where we lost two-thirds our number and my master was slain. So I have experience with guys like you. So I ask you this.
How much to buy out your contract?
(roll Iberia Lore: 1+3+1(explode) -->8(*2)=19.
Arnau thinks for a second. He smiles mentally. A new client! Nice, since the islands have already been pacified except for a few redoubts, and the Brothers were starting to get restless. While they sit at one of the trestle tables
Ah, the Segovia Company! I know about them. They have quite a record themselves. They are still active as far as I know, even if now they are smaller. They snatched a contract from us not a long time ago. . He laughs heartily. It is obvious from their equipment and attitude that despite that setback he talks about thinks are not bad for the flame brothers.
Quite an offer there! I regret to say that I am not the one you will need to discuss it with, though. These matters are something you will need to talk with Bernat de Ferrofós and count Pere d'Urgell. Lucky for you, they are both in Eivissa City. It also depends on you wanting to contract the forces you have seen here or the whole Flame Brother contingent. A guess from me would assume that five rooks would be enough to buy the 3 dromons you have seen here, and a queen for the whole forces we have on the islands. We can also accept payment in magic items.
I know it is expensive, but you would be contracting 350 rugged almogaver veterans, a fleet and the services of our leaders. We can stage a demonstration for you later in a more secluded place if you still think you are buying expensive gear. If you want you can also consult with some of our previous employers. There are no untaken fortresses in the flame brother's record. Obviously you can contract smaller forces as well if you fancy, but then the prices might not offer such generous discounts.
He rises from the central table where you have sit down and toasts the men. Brothers! Here we have Roberto of Flambeau, a magician of the Order of Hermes. We toast for him and his health since he wants to pay for your drinks and women! Understanding, the almogavers toast back with an uproar. Food starts to arrive at the tables, were wine and beer is already flowing quite generously.
(OOC: no idea on the pricing. I just made a very rough "3 almogavers per pawn" calculation. That price includes 7 firecasters, 1 very senior, 3 intermediate (including Arnau and Mateu) and 3 apprentices). Around 10% of the almogavers have a minor supernatural virtue like second sight.
There may be more than one Sergovia company, as the name came from the town they then operated out of. But Roberto's Sergovia company was wiped out. 2/3 killed or crippled, Joel Muniz dead and the Order of Hermes up everyone's asses to figure out just what was going on.
But then again, the 1/3 that survived, not including Roberto and his buddies, may indeed have carried on the name.
I am sure you are aware of the historical significance of that battle 
So let's roll with it. And Roberto will roll this back at you.
I am not interested in hiring all of you. Just spellcasters such as yourself. I want to hire you.
Ah, interesting notion. Arnau sips his wine. Mateu does not seem that happy about it, but does not intervene. The other two officers are already attacking a platter of beef as you talk. May I ask what will be the nature of the mission you are interested in? In any case you will still need to talk with our commander. I recon to say that it is unlikely that you will be able to hire all of us, though. Instructed officers are one of the differntiation factos of the fglame brothers, and we will not reduce our singularity for a single contract. However, some of us might come and help you without issue. As an orientative price I would say that one rook of vis for the first month of a senior spellcaster and one pawn per week after that. Junior spellcasters will be paid at half that cost. We can also throw 10 almogavers into the deal for free for every spellcrafter you contract. Payment can be made in vis or equivalent value in magic items. All that is my educated guess, though; it is Bernat de Tallaferro who will decide on these issues.
(OOC: Still no idea on how much I can get for that. away from books)
In my defense, I was utterly unaware of what a large and organized band of hedgies you invented. During CharGen, I had originally thought it was one guy descended from a hedge tradition, and that this one guy was a mercenary captain.
But anyway...
How about just you? I want to hire you away from these guys. Not just a contract, but as a permanent member of my staff
Arnau rises an eyebrow. He signals a groom to get more wine. I am honored, but I have some concerns about your offer. May I ask why you want to hire me? As far as you can tell I am a fairly open almogaten that can create a flame with his fingers and carries good weaponry as you have seen and is lame. He grimaces when he says that last bit. I am somewhat surprised by your offer. I would also like to know what kind of services do you expect from me.
After the starters, industrial quantities of mutton start arriving at the tables.
the reason "why you" is because you are a player character :mrgreen:
I wish to acquire your service in maintaining the security and safety of Andorra's interests in Sa Dragonera & the Baelric Islands. This is harmonious with the mission you had formerly, gives you a connection within a Hermetic covenant, and gives us a connection with temporal authority. You would be paid standard wages as an officer (companion lifestyle), and a number of men to be discussed will also be provided wages (2 pounds plus armament maintenance each year). On top of that, I can imagine bonuses and pensions involving longevity and such. If you want to be paid in vis, I offer you an annual rate of two pawns Vim for yourself and a dozen men.
(OOC: Acceptable (and understandable) as an OOC reason, but you did not answer the in character question )
Area lore: Balearic islands roll: 2+2(geography specialization) + 4= 8. Sa Dragonera being a general well known landmark I assume the difficulty to be 6 so I pass.
I suppose that since you refer to "Sa Dragonera" it means that the main covenant location is in Mallorca. That could be arranged. I assume you have small idea on the kind of dangers that we are likely to face, since Hermetic presence has been short in the islands as far as we know. As such, the Flame Brothers (and myself) would require a somewhat larger complement of warriors to be stationed in your covenant, around 25 would be preferred if you intend us to act as field forces as well as a garrison.
But you have still to answer my question: why me? And what are your usual exploits when it comes to field operations?
OOC: There you go. Now Roberto can rant as much as he likes :mrgreen: I expect to make Roy Batty's final speech to sound like that of an apprentice that has no experience outside the kindergarten.
I choose you because you show both courage and temperance. You are bold enough to speak your mind and wise enough not to choose words that could inflame tempers.
The main covenant is in Andorra, a tiny principality in the Pyrenees. Being stationed there would do you no good. And I doubt they would permit it. The Vibria Company already has that contract and stationed their Gold Gryphons there. We would need you here, in the Baelric Islands. The chapterhouse will consist of a few other magi, scattered each to their own individual location. There is no one central location. I would have the soldiers divided up amongst them to provide protection and security for each magus as "shield grogs".
Three pawns of vim a year for yourself and two dozen men.
It's assumed a hermetic magus can extract on average about 3 pawn of vis per season? That's a CrVi lab total of 30.
Hiring your spellcaster for a season would cost 10 + 4 + 4 = 18 pawns? That's as much as a verditius would ask for a lvl 30 enchantment.
You're basically telling that a season of service from an hedge wizard is worth a season crafting a 6th magnitude item from a verditius (good luck convincing Ryu of that) or about 6 seasons of the average magus time 
As I see it: Your tradition lacks an easy way to find or extract vis (I'd use the rules in tC&tC for that), but also has little use for it save trade. It really seems to me that they should bargain instead either in mundane wealth, or in magical items (subjects to the clause of magical items sold to mundanes, of course), which should be all the more precious to them since they can't make them: In any negotiation about magic or vis, Roberto should have the upper hand: He can get mercenaries a lot more easily that you can get vis or magical items.
BTW, checked this WE: 1 pawn is priced at around 15 mythic pounds by House Verditius (HoH: MC p114), which also happens to be the cost (in LoM) for hiring a freakin' knight, which are THE elite units of ME. I suggest that, at best, one would go for that: Infantry and archers at 2, for comparison.
tl, dr: You're waaaaaay overpricing this, and concentrating too much on vis IMO. Vis and magic items won't buy you food, drinks, whores or a house, nor will you be able to use them to sustain your family.
I thought the same thing there
Arnau, experienced or not, seemed to me more like one of a few firecaster than one of a 2000+ men hedge army blatantly using their powers under the OoH's nose.
That these are warriors and leaders of their own company, ok, no problem.
But with so many of them having obvious magic powers and heavily trading in vis, what you’re describing seems less like a mercenary company, and more like a parallel Order of Hedgies who ply their services openly while being unhindered by the code.
12 pounds per year = 3 pounds per season, one and a half the "infantry" price from LoM.
2 pounds per season for infantry = 8 pounds per year = 26,66 florins per year. You weren't that far from the mark 
Going by 8 pounds by man, 24 men mean 192 pounds per year (plus a firecaster). That’d be about 13 pawns, or a lvl 20 verditius item. But, well, why would a magus pay (sorry) glorified hedge magi in vis or items when mundane wealth is so much easier to come by and there are really competent mercenaries (as in Grogs) that'll accept it? And what would the 24 men do for a year, how would they live and spend time, without any money whatsoever? I really can't see that happening, although I can see a mix of the two, such as a minor item for the company (it makes little sense to spend a year’s wages on an individual soldier IMHO), and the rest in money.
Of course, if marko offers accomodations such as food and living quarters, he may drive the price down a lot: Grogs cost what? 1 pound per year IIRC, wages included, and most grogs are assumed to be reasonnably competent.
I was using the Fire Brothers as a background element, something that was active on the islands but that would not be central or even appear around except as a story hook, somewhere were Arnau would be from time to time. ... until Marko sent ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY of us to face Roberto. Talk about hubris :mrgreen: So blame Marko, not me! 
I would have sent 40 fire brothers at most, probably only Arnau's core group of 25
I am using vis as a benchmark. Then we want most of it in silver as you rightly point out However, the Brothers have use for magic items like cloaks of invisibility or PeTe(including metal) and PeHe items to infiltrate and break down fortresses, or CrCo items to set up their infirmaries so they also appreciate item payment if the client can provide it.
pricing was a wild guess since I did it without access to books, so I guess I overdid it slightly in vis :mrgreen: However I was setting prices for 120 fire brothers and 5 firecasters plus all their logistics and method of transport. That is enough to put a significant dent in any major fortress of Spain, so it does not come cheap. If Roberto wants a smaller force, well the price will be smaller, but we are still bargaining
And about the hedgies using their powers openly, it seems that nobody is reading my explanation of why they did it 
There are 12-15 firecasters all in all. Not massdive ammounts of hedgies. What we have done is genetic engineering the company to get a few people that can get supernatural abilities like second sight. Far from an 2order of hedgies", really. roberto could take down these guys if he has tooled up his spells for combat with wards vs steel weapons and similar. It would not be easy, but he could do it.
Ok, I am going for The Fixer's pricing of 8 pounds per man. 24 dudes + firecaster. 200 pounds/year. If you are paying for our expenses that goes down 25 pounds. That is 12-13 pawns per year. So Roberto's offer of 3 pawns (or equivalent wealth) is ludicrous. I am assuming that he said 13 pawns, then, and we will work from that. he is buying enough mercenaries to outfit the whole covenant with Custos, so not a big problem with the increased price, I guess.
You will still need to run this with our local leader, but 13 pawns or equivalent wealth is a suitable price for 25 of our number, including the service of yours truly. We will also offer the services of a Foguera firecaster to act as a liaison officer if you offer to exchange part of our price for minor magic items. We tend to find use for those, and are willing to offer our services at a discount in case we can arrange to get these. payment due twice per year at the central command of the Brothers in Ciutat de Mallorca (= city of Mallorca = what nowadays is Palma de Mallorca).
The mutton is certainly well cooked, and while the Shiraz is not as good as what Roberto is used to, it certainly stands as a good drink.
I am glad you appreciate our straightforward approach to life. Still, you have not fully answered me. it must be hard for your enemies to get information out of you! Arnau laughs and so do the other commanders of the company sitting with you,t aht have followed the conversation with interest. You pick up Joan Ibars (a junior "Foguera" (bonfire), if you recall the title correctly) listening more intently to these things than others. The other Incendi (Combustion), Mateu, seems to observe you with reserves and does not seem to like the deal much until Arnau mentions the magic items.
Roberto also notices that the number of Almogavers present seem to number around 80. Even discarding the guards, that is significantly lower than he would have expected, since he counted around 120 of them at the beaches.
No, I sent 60. You wanted 80, and I cut it.
So I was just playing along
And you just blatantly invented false facts.
Now as far as prices, Xavi, you are way too crazy 
. The most you are gonna get is two pennies a day plus armament cost, just like the calculation for soldiers from Covenants. The historic reference you sited is still in the far future from our point of view, after 200 years of inflation and after the plague cut down the available work force (thus driving wages higher).
No. The most I will offer, the most I can offer is 2 pounds per year per man, and 5 pounds for Arnauf. There is no way that Roberto, or even the covenant as a whole, can afford that extravagant price.
So, I mean, it is a deal breaker. Take it or leave it.
Ok, time for a small planning and fact setting. I am somewhat disappointed at the development of the current thread, not for the story itself, but at what I am reading between the lines.
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I think that the Flame Brothers would not be very interested in diminishing their overall combat strength for an average grog price. That diminishes their value in front of other customers (smaller size of the company) and that is a no no. If you were paying in hermetic items things would be different. I do not see them giving away a firecaster that easily for the same reasons, though. However, they might grant you a garrison if you want it, but that would be composed of perfectly mundane soldiers.
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Arnau or other firecasters might be interested in joint operations with you, though, and might even offer their services for free if you are willing to act as suppliers of longevity potions and items. If not, there are other ways to ensure that they (or him) hang around other than a contract and still enable for joint operations without any problems. Sending him as an envoy was how I planned to bring him into the story, so no problem at all.
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I like the interpretative way of Ars, but I hate its accounting part with a passion. That is how I and my troupe play.
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False facts.
Normal compliment: 60. Double compoliment = 120 if my basic arithmetics still work. Being accused of inventing false facts is somewhat dubious at best, and makes me wonder if I am really wanted around here 
I just added a few firecasters to the mix because they fit my character's background. And they have not said a word so far. Does that matter? Not at all. This is irrelevant. The fact that they landed with 40 or 40.000 men is totally irrelevant. They are enough men to massacre the village by mundane terms and totally useless in front of a tooled up combat hermetic ready for them that I am sure is immune to steel and wood weapons and has immunity to most fire spells we can throw his way. That is regardless of them being 40 men or 120. It is just background. I could have made an operation that would have made the Normandy invasion pale in comparison and it would still be background, something to set the stage. Being accused of inventing stuff.... well, AFAIK this is a collaborative effort to tell a story. So if I had invented stuff (which I have not except for adding the firecasters) I would say that nobody has a right to complain. I would like to know it if I am mistaken.
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Background concerns. Arnau is supposed to lead 60 men in his background (see a pattern? background) but he will never have more than 20-25 of them available for operations. I still want him to have those available for operations, since it is my virtue, not Sa Dragonera's. Having 25 almogavers spread thin around the Balearic islands protecting the assets of Andorra basically deprives me of one of my virtues, so I consider it unfair. I assume this is understandable. It would otherwise be like someone having a personal vis source and Andorra using it to pay the vis wage of said magus!
In order to have my virtue be mine, I have ended up preferring not to be contracted by Roberto. You can contract a bunch of almogaver mercnaries for Sa Dragonera (no problem about that), but they will not be my Mercenary Captain Virtue. Otherwise I would have the feeling that I was being scammed as a player and getting cheated one of my virtues. -
Money. Again 100% irrelevant. I was trying to roleplay a nice negotiation but since it seems to have Marko on edge and calling me names I am editing my prices to read Pink Flamingos. Make the conversion of Pink Flamingos to money or vis at your own desired level. One flamingo might be a thousand queens of vis or a single pence of silver. Up to you. This is irrelevant since it will not affect Arnau's wealth or Andorra's wealth at all. I will talk about pink flamingos from now on each time I talk money, both hermetic and mundane.
Posting later to refuse Roberto's offer.
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I actually don't want to hire any of these Mercenaries. I am trying to find a way to get you in the game. I am not the SG for this chapter. Ryu is. I am a fellow player trying to accommodate you. Perfectly mundane soldiers is fine. I just want Arnuf. That is all.
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I don't want them hanging around at all. I would rather they go away and their ship sinks. This sort of military hedgie organization makes me and my character uncomfortable.
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then you should just let me do the accounting and accept the price I offer you is fair enough.
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Xavi, you are oversensitive and you are wanted around here. When I make mistakes or get caught speaking with a forked tongue, I smile and admit my mistakes and move on. You said I sent 120 men, I gave you only 60 after you requested 80. Maybe you remembered incorrectly and I was being snarky. I apologize.
But it is not just background fluff. You have created a huge network of mercenary hedgies, something that strains my suspension of disbelief. -
The Mercenary Captain virtue gives you 5 to 10 men, or if Wealthy you have up to 20 men. Not 60. So I have no idea how that works out. And, unless he managed to get the council to agree, Roberto would have indeed been stuck with paying you out of his pocket. That is the primary reason he was so stingy with his offer and wanted far fewer soldiers.
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you have two number 5's, and the pink flamingo comment makes no sense.
This is the last time I am gonna let anyone play anything other than a vanilla Hermetic magus as their main character. And you are unknowingly being unfair to me. I am not the SG in this. Ryu is. And I kinda wish Ryu would step up and start mediating and helping us. And mind you, Roberto only said "join or die" because he likes you. If he didn't, the choice would have never been offered.
So gimme a break. Work with me here. Stop being so easily offended. I would rather that you be offensive than offended. Because honestly, the first time you run into Vulcanus, you are gonna blow a fuse and shoot your computer in anger unless you get some thicker skin.
Arnau controlling 60 soldiers is background. He will not have that firepower at his disposal. Ever. unless we plan a pitched battle, and then it does not matter much if he controls it or a NPC does it. he has 20 soldiers available for his discretionary use. This is where I got 60. Background. I made it 60 because a firecaster with the power of Arnau controlling 20 soldiers only makes no sense. But as I say they are not gonna be around. As I said above you sent Arnau to the village with double compliment of soldiers and 3 ships. 60*2 = 120. I just pointed out that the ships were byzantine dromons and added the firecasters to the mix because it fits the background you commented was great a few pages ago. And as I said above, it does not matter at all how many are there. The "huge network of hedgies" is 15 hedgies all in all. 5 of them are juniors, 3 of them are seniors and 7 are medium rank like Arnau. Far from huge networks IMO. Using magic items and minor supernatural virtues (what around 10% of the Almogavers are using) does not make you a hedgie, just makes use of something that the Order and other organization provide in the official setting. So blame mr Chart for that Arnau is way below the power level of an equivalent hermetic magus. What you seem to have problems with is his background showing up to say hello. Instead of enriching the character it seems that you think it sucks big time.
This is the entry scene for Arnau. You will not see fire brothers around unless we specifically search for them int the future. They are certainly no worse than the real OoH when it comes to suspension of disbelief to me. But well, to each one his own.
I can work with what you say, but having warned me that you planned on murdering my character in your first 3 messages if I decided that Roberto was a jerk (quite easy to do that) and attacked him, would have been good. This kind of scenes are better choreographed in advance in my experience. otherwise shit like this one happens. Let's see how we can move forward from here and leave this misunderstanding behind.
I come like this so that you know my word of death is true, and so that you know my word of life is the true...
Just rewatched that movie today. It is awesome.
By double the number, I had meant 40. You are supposed to have only 20, double that is 40, and the rest are auxillary (cooks, concubines, trench diggers, etc). So that may have lead to misunderstanding. You have 60 men, 20 per ship, and only 40 of those 60 are fighting men. I would rather you had only 20 top maximum ever, and that you were the entirety of this company.
And I think I mentioned before I do not like the flying soldiers and asked you not to do that.
I thought your background was awesome because I clearly misunderstood what you were doing. I apologize. I was wrong.
And I am not the SG here. Someone else should have regulated you and stepped in as soon as we started this thread. Ryu, I am looking in your general direction. So I think you have misinterpreted my actions as those of a storyguide character. Roberto is all PC, and I will be as self centered and narrow viewed as any other PC while playing him.
And killing you in a fair fight is not murder. It is victory. You outnumber me vastly, and I would barely manage to kill all of you, and a few might get away and I might get my clothing dirty :mrgreen:
And what are Byzantine dromons doing here? I need maybe to do some research, but I do not think those are the sort of ships people in this region would be using.
15 hedgies unified in a military organization is a vast network IMO. If there were only hedgies in ME, or just the Order and a few hedgies, I can handle that. But one band of hedgies this size as one of many, and the Order, both coexisting, that strains it for me.
And I am playing an old-school Flambeau magus, the quintessential Flambeau. What were you expecting of me? Remember, not the SG here, just another player character.