Historical Events and the Order

History buffs, what real Historical events that occur in the 13th and early 14th century might effect the order as a whole?

Or the inverse view. Are their any points in the next hundred years of game time that the reality of Magic and the existence of the Order is likely to throw an unavoidable monkey wrench in how history "really" happened.

Some places I'd wonder about.

The Medieval Inquisition against Heretical Sects.

Mongol Invasion of the east.

Related increased trade with the far east and the Polo's expedition to china.

The Plague a little outside the time frame but still on it's way

Decline in agriculture by the end of th 13th century thanks to the start of a mini ice age.

Yup, all those.

Also Las Navas de Tolosa (1212), where the Christians defeat the almohads. That marks the definitive turning point of the Reconquista. There is a legend that the Apostle Santiago appeared surrounded by shimmering light and showed the christians a secret pass through the mountains that allowed them to pass the Almohad defenses easily, but to me that is a magus just about to be marched acting for the Greater Good

The timely death of Ghengis Khan always sounded like a job for a Corpus specialist to me. Teleport, kill, return. Not difficult to get an AC to the central power court given the use of official badges for messengers.


Sounds more like an Infernalist denying The Divine to me. :slight_smile:

Not ccontradictory given the Shadow Flambeau. IIRC there was even a mention along those lines in ROP:I :slight_smile:


The decline of the Byzantine Empire. The Jerbitons are going to fight tooth and nail against it, and they might well postpone the fall or even prevent it... possibly creating large tensions inside the Order. All it takes is one Jerbiton fanatical enough to not care about getting Marched to prevent the sack of Constantinople in 1204, and keep the Byzantine Empire whole in the thirteenth century.

Both of these depend on how you perceive the Mongols and China in Mythic terms.

Perhaps the Mongols are a Divinely sent scourge?
Maybe China is but a place in Faerie Arcadia created out of traveller's tales?



Don't forget the continued Crusades to the North East.

There's the increasing cenralisation and consolidatino in France (with Flambeau and Tytalus dominating) while the HRE continues to be fractious and inhocehisve (Merinita, Bjornaer and Bonisagus dominating) Does not seem a coincidence to me.

There's the English-Scottish wars.

There's the heretic wars in France and elsewhere, though witchhunts do NOT become a thing until the Reformation.

There's the Avignon papacy, the vacant see and the Pope-Wars :smiley: starting in the early 1300s.

The Black death, starting c. 1350.

Rise of Gothic style, and subsequent explosion of Dominion aura in cities.

St. Thomas Aquinas and the rise of scholasticism, which denounces magic. The rise of the "new orders" of Dominicans and Fransciscans.

The reconquista's humble beginings.

Of local interest to Verditius will be the conquests of Sardinia in the mid 13th century, and the war of the Vespers over Sicily shortly thereafter.

Crusades, naturally.

These are just a few thoughts.

Not IMS. Our troupe has killed him. Twice (2 separate sagas) :open_mouth: :open_mouth: Since then famous eclesiastical characters then to be rather shy when our travel parties approach.


Thank you for sharing!


AWESOME! :smiling_imp:

Did that stop the rise of scholasticism, or change its nature in some way? And wouldn't there be.... uh... consequences for offing a Saint?

One idea I often wondered about was why did Jerbiton not infiltrate the Great Universities to steer intellectuals away from condemnation of magic?

Just a few more ideas.

The end of the Hohenstaufen dynasty and the founding of the Hapsburg dynasty as the Holy Roman Emperors. Perhaps the magi have something to do with it? The last great Hohenstaufen, Frederick II, had magicians and muslims at his court, was excommunicated, and managed to secure Jerusalem not by Holy War, but through diplomacy.

The rise of the Ottoman empire from the ruins of Byzantium. Jerbiton? Tremere?

The fall of the merchant city-state of Pisa at the hands of the Genoese (the disastrous battle of Meloria, 1284) - which makes the Genoese the undisputed masters of the trade in the Western Mediterranean, and allows Florence to rise as a mercantile power (fill the power gap in Tuscany). The Genoese fillin* with earth the harbor of the Pisans to ensure they will never again rise -- perhaps an opportunity for a Terram magus, or a greedy covenant?

The Genoese - Venitian wars for control of the Eastern Mediterranean, starting in 1256 and ending with the destruction of the Genoese Fleet (and the eventual decline of Genoa) at the battle of Chioggia, in 1381 (which saw the first use of shipborn cannons). Is Gunpoweder vis?

The first 63 years of the 100 years war between France and England - including the battle of Crecy (1356), which sees the rise of the fabled English (or, rather, Welsh) longbow and the eventual decline of Knights as the unstoppable force on the battlefield. Perhaps the English longbow is the "invention" of some Verditius?

The dissolution of the order of the Templars in 1307, accused of sorcery, and the seizing of their assets by the greedy monarchs of Europe. This is definitely a no-miss for Magi of the Order.

The Baltic Crusades (the christianization of north-eastern Europe and the corruption of the Teutonic Order) in the 13th century. The Divine vs. the Infernal vs. the Faerie Gods...

Honestly, this thread made me think once again of the pure genius of the idea of Mythic Europe -- exploiting the medieval landscape to make a setting far richer than any other fantasy world.

I couldn't agree more!

Killing aquinas did not stop scholasticism. There are a lot of other people going for it. it did steem some of his opinions out of hte trend, though. Or so I guess. This part of ME has not been big IMS before.

In ME I pretty much doubt that magic would be condemned as readily as it was. it is not only hermetics that would be pressing to NOT having magic banned. The Gift goes a long way to justify it being seen badly, but it can be overcome none the less.


Denounces as in magic is an evil bad work of the devil.

Or is it denounces like this is all just flim flam and chicanery.

Because that makes quite a difference.

I think the latter wouldn't really work in Mythic Europe unless you wanted to play it for comedy or add some sort of strange sinister back plot. (Or bring back the "Reason" aura :unamused: ). Perhaps one place where the reality of magic becomes the aforementioned unavoidable monkey wrench.

As far as the former goes if your saga takes the option that Magic is not inherently a sin. (from the Magic & Sin sidebar ArM5 pg 202) It might come down to your the order having to prove to the scholastics that there view is erroneous. Now do you do it with reasoned debate or mastered BoAFs?

EDIT: Hint setting people on fire kinda proves the other guys point.

Awww! Damn!

Xavi hides the charred corpse under the carpet

Aquinas Scholasticism took the opinion that magic was inherently sinful, though this is never actually true IMS for ME.

Scholasticism was a systematic philosophy, that liked things clearly classified, and couldn't think of any classifications for the supernatural other than God and God's enemies. preternaturality is another kettle of fish, but invocations and incantations are communication, and if you're not communicating with God then, for a scholastic....

With the Gentle Gift, Jerbiton magi would be well suited to infiltrate Universities, and combat this notion from within. However, count on some Guernicus or Tremere jackass (and really, aren't they all?) to call them up on charges of "interfering with Mundanes" for trying.

Our troupe had a friendly Doctore as a companion, who they sponsored in his arguments, and who successfully argued for official sanction from the University of Paris for non-infernal magic (after we crispified a few bothersome diabolists and otherwise, ah, arranged for other opponents to be less able to intervene.)