House Rules discussion (Unusual HRs and proposals)

Me as well, since it affects me especially.

Aha! My 2 seasons to raise it means I come to the school already sounding erudite and stuff. :wink:

I don't like this at first look, but the excessively high penalties would explain the OoH's isolation at lot more.

As a suggestion of my own:

1.) Improved "vain" Longevity Rituals - so long as the maga/magus does not fail an aging roll, they do not have any apparent aging.

2.) Magi do not lose their fertility unless they're at an apparent age which would have fertility issues anyways.

I'm trying to figure out how I got to -27 for a 3rd magnitude Divine aura. It should be -18, 6 (pyramid score) x 3 magnitude of aura. A 4 would be -40..

The fertility issue can be resolved for nearly any character interested in maintaining fertility. A little bit of work is involved, though.

One consequence of an Aura with such a drastic change in dynamics means that Aegis of the Hearth rituals become nerfed at best, or useless at worse. Whereas a basic Aegis at level 20 in a level 3 aura had a net spellcasting effect of -7 (i.e. +3 (Aura) -10 (Aegis)), it would now be an ignorable -1 (+9 Aura -10 Aegis). Durenmar's aura of 7 would mean that magi get a +28 spellcasting bonus, so even a massive 10th Magnitude Aegis means that an uninvited wizard still gets a bonus of +3! This compared to the -18 with RAW.

[size=150]Original Research/Breakthrough Proposals[/size]

So, I think this is the thread to post this in for Troupe discussion.

My character, Ancel, is a part-time theoretician and I had built into his background that he would be doing Original Research. His field is integrating exotic magic rather than trying to break a Lesser Limit or whatever his more stuffy Bonisagus colleagues are working on. Historically, he's spent time in the Rhine and the British Isles, so that gives you an idea of the kinds of hedge traditions he may be exposed to.

Jonathan.Link suggested I put it up to the troupe to talk about what kind of project he may be working on. To keep this straightforward, I'm thinking that something out of the Hedge Magic (Revised Edition) or Houses of Hermes: Societas books would be easiest since they're pre-defined and folks can know what they're looking at. Here are a few I've picked out:

  • The Comprehend Magic supernatural ability of the Pralicians (HoH:S pp. 128-129). Probably a Major breakthrough.
  • The elementalist virtues (of which there are several) from Hedge Magic (Revised Edition). Elemental Medicine, Philosophiae, and Theurgy are listed as Minor Breakthroughs. The Elementalist Arts (earth/air/fire/water) are Major Breakthroughs, as, I assume, would be Summoning, Controlling, and Refining. Adapting the latter would mean a minimum of two Major breakthroughs before any useful additions to Hermetic theory are available.
  • Folk Witches are widespread and can provide some useful magics. I'll avoid the Energy Magic one, since restoring fatigue is a big limitation to Hermetic magic. However, Subtle Opening as a Minor Breakthrough would be interesting -- it provides absolutely no benefit to existing trained magi, but allows future magi to learn non-Hermetic magic more easily be removing the penalty for existing magic. This is a Minor Breakthrough. Sense the Mystic would provide Second Sight to those who learned it. (Major Breakthrough)
  • Gruagach traditions offers Flexible Formulaic Magic -- not so much the Virtue itself, but the ability to learn a new Mastery called 'Flexible Formulaic Magic' that lets you adjust the parameters of that particular spell. This would be a Minor Breakthrough. The book lists two additional Breakthroughs that could make Flexible Formulaic Magic teachable, while a second could make the existing virtue level variance increase to +/-10 levels instead of +/-5. These are each a Minor Breakthrough.
  • Alternatively, Ancel could decide that the real challenge is to bring in existing known talents and knacks (i.e. Hermetic Virtues) into Hermetic Theory as a way of unifying magic and making these individual quirks more widely available. (Inspired by this thread from last year.)

Gruagach also had a possible breakthrough with their voice range spells not having to see the target. They could effect anyone who heard the words.

Yeah, I was trying to avoid Hermetic breakthroughs, as amusing as it would be for a Trianoman Bonisagus to make it. It would significantly disrupt the House. :slight_smile: (I was just reading over the Bonisagus chapter in HoH:TL and a Bonisagus-lineage magus who makes a Hermetic Breakthrough would be on the fast track for Primus -- except that those of Trianoma's lineage are never considered, or put themselves in the running, to keep tradition alive.)

This isn't quite right. It's not about seeing, it's about perceiving. If he can hear them and not see them, a Hermetic magus can cast a spell at someone at Voice range. Hermetic magic is limited to perception of the target. However, a Gruagach has magic that can affect all that hear him, and he doesn't have to even perceive the recipient of his spells, so an invisible magus undetected by a Gruagach might be affected by the magic if it penetrates his MR or would feel his parma ping. A deaf magus, on the other hand, wouldn't hear the Gruagach and his parma would never ping, either, since the magic never targeted him.

The house is already disrupted, a Trianomae is in charge!

That's a good point. Having massive boosts to the casting score is all well and good, but are there corresponding boosts to Aegis, and Parma, to compensate? Perhaps if Parma and Aegis pyramided also?

All wards are similarly impacted. If a creature you're trying to keep from killing you also gets a massive bonus to throw that spell effect due to the Aura, then anything but the strongest wards will be wet tissue paper against demons, faeries, etc.

I think you're forgetting that MR is also boosted similarly.

In the case of the magus visiting Durenmar and he doesn't have a token, he would have a +3 in a 10th Magnitude Aegis. But everyone in Durenmar, aligned with the Magic Realm also has a +28 to their MR. In most cases additions to MR and CS are offsetting and can be ignored for simplicity, but when working within an Aegis, the differences can still be profound. An Aegis still offers significant protection in that light.

As to Wards, it's slightly easier to make a ward penetrate in a Magic Aura. The creature's might is the creature's might, and so wards are slightly easier to cast in a magic Aura. Creatures would only get a benefit to MR in their native realm. A Hermetic magus in a magic aura against a magic creature, bonuses to the aura for when the magus attacks are basically ignored, since the creature gets the same bonus for the MR. Change to a Faerie aura, and a faerie creature, the creature gets the full pyramid bonus, and the magus gets 1/2 the pyramid bonus. In a Divine Aura, everyone's just a bit more screwed, but keep in mind most cities will be a 2 now, not a 3. In an Infernal aura, well, it's not as bad as a Divine aura...

For some reason, I never noticed that Aura modified magic resistance, since it's not mentioned until the back of the book in the Aura section in two sentences.

That said, I'm not a big fan of the house rule. It seems to introduce massive swings of power from Auras, and Hermetic magic is built around a much flatter pyramidal system. Not to mention that you seem to have two scales, whereas before it was just one scale. Why would the Aura be inhibited for lab activities but not spellcasting and realm creature effects? I'd think it'd be the reverse, if anything: a season-long lab activity, or ritual spell, or ceremonial casting should be able to unlock more of the inherent magic in the area than an off-the-cuff, immediate effect that harnesses and releases the power immediately.

Additionally, I'm also not a big fan of crunch to enforce thematic elements. If, in this Saga, wizards have become more withdrawn and insular, then why can't that just be the case as part of the setting? This would be enforced with a social pressure at Tribunals (and use of Wizard's Wars) for those who don't fall in line.

The process of inventing a spell or an item, involves probably repeatedly casting or working on an effect under controlled conditions. It makes complete sense that you can do this easily in your lab as a bonus to casting score. That casting score, done on a daily basis derives to a bonus to labwork, but it's not a direct one for one translation.
To use Durenmar as an example, there's no way that I'm going to allow a +28 bonus to lab work. You thought penetration was bad before?

Soo.... how about we just leave the aura rules "as is"?

Okay, I missed the part where bonuses to MR used the experience points side and not the score side

So, a maga casts an irrelevant spell of Level 15 and a casting score of 25, in a Magic Aura of 4, against a boggart aligned with the Magic Realm with a Might Score of 10 (and therefore a MR of 10). By the book, her casting total is 29 (succeeding by 14). Since the boggart's effective MR is 14, the spell barely has no effect Using the proposed HR (as I understand it), the maga's CT is now 31, which now succeeds by 16. However, the boggart's MR is now 16, so it's still a push.

Same maga, vs. a demon with Infernal Might of 10, in an Infernal Aura of 4. Her CT goes from 21 to 15, which is the same as the spell level. The demon's effective MR goes from 14 to 20, and her base Penetration goes from +0 to -5 (before Penetration ability).

The maga, for whatever reason, takes on a kitty-cat with Divine Might of 10 with the same level spell in a Divine Aura of 4. Her CT goes from 12 to -5 (25 – [3x10]). The kitty's MR goes from 14 to 20. The spell, rather than failing by 3, now fails by 20.

And, to make the study complete, our stalwart maga takes on a boggart with a Faerie Might of 10 in a Faerie Aura of 4. Her CT goes from 27 to 30 (succeeding by 15 rather than 12). The boggart's MR goes from 14 to 20, so her base Penetration goes from -2 to -5.

The more I think about it, the more I find myself not really liking it. It feels like a hammer in search of a nail, so to speak. As if it were a rules tweak simply for the sake of tweaking the rule, with no real need for it beyond "it would be neat if...".

I don't feel like I'm expressing myself real well, but it basically boils down to: if we're voting on the rule, I'd vote no, because I don't see a need for it and it introduces more unnecessary figuring.

As soon as a second voice appeared, it was dropped, unless someone wanted to withdraw their opposition. I disagree that putting societal pressures on magi is enough to isolate them. But it's not worth it for me to spend SG capital on the issue.

I prefer the aura rules as is myself.

It's dropped (the aura rules), no need to talk about it any further.

There are other rules that have been mentioned here, I suggest the rest of the troupe review and comment on those. Without support, HRs proposed by the players aren't even going to get a (second) look from me.
The ones I posted already in the other HR thread, are ones I'm firm on, meaning that it is going to take every player involved to overrule me.

So, for the House Rules posted, I don't see anything that's much of a problem. However, a comment on the way Ring spells will work: this will make it impossible to have things like Securing the Harvest (ReAn 4) (MoH p. 75) that are meant to prevent vermin from getting to your food. But if the simple act of anything crossing it "breaks" the ring, then wards like it wouldn't basically exist in this saga because they'd be completely ineffective. What good is a ward that you can't actually... put food into?