House rules (open for discussion)

Regarding abilities, which ones are eligible for the first 5 years during character creation?

I think putting Swim as a specialty of Athletics is strange. Specialties can sometime change when the ability's score rises. This becomes impossible if you want your character to swim...

Yup, it does in this case. A lot of people do not know how to swim. If you want to, you know what to do :slight_smile: My troupe had a running joke about swimming. One of the guys actually had a tab on his sheet on the number of times swim had been used. It was so low in then priority list that we decided to ditch the ability and take this alternative instead. Ars Magica suffers from ability bloat. This is just a limited attempt to reduce it.

From your v&f list Boniface does not sound like the athletic type in any case.

About available abilities, the same as in the diverse examples of childhood packages appearing in the core book and supplements. Nothing new here.

Actually, there are some abilities that were available in childhood that get folded into ones that cannot. Animal Handling is the most obvious case. Guile seems to be split between Charm (which can be taken by a child) and Intrigue (which cannot).

Not a real issue for my character, sure, but it reduces the possible options for those initial exp. I was simply wondering if there was any adjustment.

I've had a saga where Swim was used regularly. The covenant was located on an island. An ability doesn't need die rolls for it to be relevant in a saga. How often does one roll on a language?

Ah, I see. My tabletop group has always taken "block ability" creation, using all available XP (childhood or not) at the same time, so this has never been a thing.
Consider that if an ability could be taken at childhood and was folded into another ability, you can take the new ability. I doubt this will break anything.

Given the change of approach tpo the OoH, this changes to "everybody can start the saga with a social status corresponding to his tradition. If not, he is supposed to be a Hermetic Wizard (social status, free). You can have both statuses, but in this case secular and religious authorities might have some say on your whereabouts as usual for complex and not clearly cut belonging statuses."

Sounds OK?

Do you get a Social Status Hermetic Wizard, if you take the Oath of Hermes? Or can you get it?

I can imagine an automatism - at least as seen from the OoH's point of view!

Actually, I used the word sodalis already with the meaning "member of the Order of Hermes". And what would Hermetic Wizard else mean?

Yes you do from the POV of the OoH. Parma guy = member of the Order.
Other people (like the church, or the local nobility) might disagree.

It might indeed be wise and more exact to call the Social Status just "Member of the Order of Hermes": shorthand "sodalis" if uninitiated people are listening - just like "widow's son" among free-masons.

We need to look at the library rules. I am voting for something simple, like granting a flat seasonal quality of

  • Things that are likely to be there (area lores, relevant institution lores, academic abilities) Quality 9+D6
  • Somehwat more obscure topics (Novgorod Lore, Africa Lore). Quality: 6+D6
  • General abilities will not have tractatus except for stuff that was in academia or belonged to educated knowledge: Masonry (maybe codede) Falconry, Brawl and Athletics (in greek) .... those will be quality 3+D6. you ar eunlikely to find a book on Awareness or Carouse, but you can find books in Etiquette.
  • Arcane abilities: 3+D6?
  • Arcane Lores: 6+D6
  • Initiation scripts. there will be initiation scripts. How do we see if they are available or not? ideas?

No books on supernatural abilities. those are learned by practice and no people write about them. BUT we could consider a single Q6+D6 Tractatus to acompany each initiation script, maybe?

Art books... I am unsure about. Maybe we should forgo them, or centre them in just a few traditions (Augustans, Folk Withces and elementalism?)

I am using D6 instead of D10 to ease calculations. The math is less explosive doing that for book level. I know it is not kosher, sorry :stuck_out_tongue:

We could use something like the rules for the library of Durenmar, adjusting the numbers to reflect the greater focus of Triamore on mundane texts.

AFAICS the library would also be a communications hub with the rest of the world, right?

At least Boniface and Sulpice will also need to write books: will they publish them via Paris or Triamore?

Will the Latin translations from Arabic of the new Aristotle which are written in Sicily (from mid 1220 on or so) come via Naples, Paris or directly from Palermo to Triamore? Will the Imperial treaties and laws (from 1218 on) come directly to Triamore? Will the Papal laws and their commentaries come via Paris, Bologna, Padova (from 1225 on) or directly to Triamore?

What will be the role of Triamore among scholars? Is there scribal hospitality? Do at least Boniface and Sulpice can set up a circle of letters?

(very busy and away also from most history books)

Triamore is not the register of the Empoire. It is the library of the empire. Quite different. legal documents do not need to make their way to triamore. Books do. Papal buulls can be books, but were not published as such, and if they ar eimportant for legal matters in court they would not go to triamore right away.

What the library is is that, the library. Books given to the court are sent here (after a while, or right away if they are awful, I gfuess), and rtriamore can certainly ask for books (and legal documents) to be copied form the court "for safekeeping" and to ensure its own role in the grand plan of things, but these do not come to the covenant as default.

AFAIK Books were a relatively common gift in the middle ages among high society if you wanted to show that you were learned. these are the ones that will come to triamore. Subject matter might be actual, legendary or anything else.

Do you have any proposal regarding the barrage of questions that you put forward? When I sayu that this is troupe driven I believe what I say: the troupe is the one defining these things. I doi not have a definitive view here at all. Some of thdse things I have not even considered, so you are all welcome to make suggestions.

from the top of my head the mnore up to date stuff like the new Aristotle will probably reach triamore via paris before the imperial court, even igf it will eventually come that way as well.

Regarding the circle of letters I like them as background material and I encourage you to set it up. However, I do not really like the rules for it, so I am not keen on using these.

The books on newer Papal law are annotated collections of bulls and letters, in general approved by the Pope and then distributed directly to universities teaching Canon Law. I can send you their names and publishing dates in March.
A similar distribution of Imperial Laws is set up to Naples after 1225.
Getting the new Aristotle in Latin via Paris has Player Characters more involved in it, hence is fine. Even if the translations in Sicily are made under control if the Sicilian court.

Letter cycles set up by Sulpice I send in March. (Sent at dinner after busy festival day)

Boniface will be less interested in up-to-date mundane publications (canon law, theology, etc.) although those on Philosophiae will certainly be of interest to him. His interest will lie more on supernatural texts relevant to his research, which I expect to be "discovered" in older texts in the library (having been sent to Triamore because it seemed uninteresting) or obtained through other members of his tradition, as well as other contacts he makes in other traditions within the Order and its allies (or scavenged from its fallen enemies/victims).

I don't expect he will write that much new books, at least not at first.

Here is that link already: "Around 1216, an unknown writer formed the "Compilatio quarta", the fourth collection, containing the decretals of the pontificate of Innocent III which are of a later date than 7 January 1210 and the canons of the Fourth Lateran Council held in 1215. Finally, the fifth compilation is, like the third, an official code, compiled by order of Honorius III (1216–1227) and approved by this pope in the Bull "Novæ causarumn" (1226 or 1227)."

The people, with whom Frère Sulpice will start exchange letters regularly are the following.

In Paris: Fra Pacifico, his former teachers in Classical Greek and Hebrew, Marcus of Paris (TLatL p.86) and some members of the Order of Hermes (a Learned Magician would be fine), an experimental philosopher (specializing in Formulae?), some scholars of Theology and Philosophiae (interested in the New Aristotle - A&A p.9f).

In Reims: his family, especially his father and elder brother.

He strives to maintain contact with:
his family,
of course the Franciscans (who expect him to report and obey),
his coven/covenant in Paris
and the university.

He might still do translations for Parisian scholars he worked with before, his time permitting.

OneShot, I am quitre amazed at your level of period knowledge. And at the same time, I have to say that for me, as a SG, it is taxing and not relevant for the kind of stories I planned to narrate.

Religion has never interested me. At all. I consider it one of the worst inventions and delusions of humankind (YMMV). I am well aware of its significance and influence in the politico-social evolution of our species, but I have never given it a central role in my games. it is not the kind of thing that I enjoy in my stories.

The religious level of detail you want to get is well and good, but please, do not ask for ruling on such things. If your narrative wants to make such items available to the covenant, please, do, but they are pure narrative.

I prefer to be clear here since this has been taxing me. I am seriously considering dropping this whole thing because of this. I do not enjoy religion, and do not plan on changing that. Having a priest is all well and good as long as he does not try to push religion to the fore as a story arc. I am not storyguiding that. :confused: religion will not be a plot hook. Not for me.

I like people that shapeshift into crows, people that talk with spirits of trees, pleople that searches for the philosopher's stone and witches that curse your flock. This is what I intended to do in the saga: a MAGICAL covenant settled in mundane society. I know that religion was a major thing there, but I just not enjoy it and prefer such things to be in the background. If this is not the case I prefer to drop the whole idea since religion and 5th edition faerie vampires are 2 of my disliked things in Ars Magica :frowning:

Right now for me this whole idea has become a chore, not something I enjoy, so I am putting this on hold. We will see if permanently or temporarily, but I certainly ran ahead of myself here.

This is my fault for jumping in just after testing the waters to see if there would be potential interest in a hedge saga. there seem it is, but I just started building it right away instead of stopping and considering what the hell I was doing.

Sorry for the people that committed to this, but it seems I was not up to the task and did not make myself clear. I learned a lot in these few weeks, but it seems I need to plan things much more thoroughly before embarking in this kind of online saga. I thought it would be both easier and smoother.

Again, sorry and will send you a message when I have a clearer focus.

Xavi

Xavi, my own relationship with religion is much like yours. It is fine to have it in the background, since it was historically very present in Europe. But I do not want stories about the religious. Or the academic, for that matter. Ars Magica is about magic and wizards. I find this specific saga interesting because it explores the different magical traditions of Ars, which are usually just in the sidelines.

I have also learned quite a bit just building Boniface. If you decide to continue with the game, after a bit of time or several months from now, let me know! :slight_smile:

I am not sure whether there is a misunderstanding here. Frère Sulpice is not a holy man, but a lucky one who found the Ars Notoria and is coping with it as good as he can.

For my sake you can just cut his attempts at it out of the game and assume he succeeds - perhaps because Pahalia is helping and he is reasonably docile.

It was just, that I did not know - and how could I? - what Pahalia and Fra Pacifico in particular expect of Frère Sulpice in your game. Frère Sulpice is very optimistic, so he went to Triamore. But he is not dumb, so he communicates. If you are uncomfortabe with role playing these communications and they are unimportant for your saga, please say so and we can leave them out!

I am also not sure how you feel about medieval law around 1220. Is there a similar antipathy I should have anticipated?

So far, Frère Sulpice lives in medieval society. He needs to consider the workings of the Church, in particular the bishoprics of Paris and Liège, his order and the university of Paris. So he needs to know, respect and apply Canon Law just as every other scholar. This knowledge indeed gives clerics and scholars an edge over lords and knights - and can be made a valuable asset of Triamore. He is not yet an expert of it by any means, but knows what there is to learn and thanks to Pahalia can learn it quickly if needed.

Especially the Canons from the 4th Lateran Council are already 1217 critical for the position and organizations of scholars. They can be used both to their advantage or destruction. They have little to do with faith, and a lot with conformity. Cutting Canon Law out of the game really shifts Triamore into a fantasy world.
It precedes Imperial law here only for a few years: then both laws provide a base for a real imperial immediacy of Triamore. What do you intend to do about this increasing 'iuridification' of the German feudal state from 1220 onwards?