How do you play Wizard's Communion?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
#1

My troupe has only just discovered the delights and possibilities inherent in the Wizard's Communion.

For those who haven't checked this out as yet (and if not, why not), the Wizard's Communion allows multiple magi to cooperate in casting a given formulaic or ritual spell. One magus takes responsibility for actually "casting" the spell, but the spell's effective level is divided by the number of magi taking part in the communion. So, a level 50 spell cast by a communion of 5 magi means an effective spell level of just 10. This allows two things. Firstly, potentially very difficult spells are made achievable. And secondly, the Penetration achievable improves by virtue of having a lower effective target level.

This is all good stuff so far. You can see the potential already. But in planning what we were going to do, we had to read the spell text very carefully. As a spell that's been adapted from Mercurian ritual, there's no direct easy fit into Hermetic standards. Importantly, there's no mention of needing to cast the Wizard's Communion. Only the level at which it is known is important (all the magi present sum the level they know Wizard's Communion at and so long as the total is twice the level of the target spell they can cooperate).

So we understand the mechanics, but it does throw up some questions.

  1. Although Wizard's Communion doesn't need to be "cast", do you enforce any preparation time before the effects of the Communion are granted?

  2. Given that there are no casting rolls for Wizard's Communion, how do you have it interact with mastered multiple castings?

  3. Once the Communion is joined, can all magi present cast their spells round after round with benefit?

Some examples...

The four magi are in four different places in round one. For their action in round one they all move to a given point such that they're in the same place at the beginning of round two. When round two starts, can the lead magus cast a spell aided by the Wizard's Communion? Looking at the rules as written, I don't think there's anything to prevent this. I'm not sure I like it from a flavour perspective. It feels a little too power rangers to me.

The magus with Demon's Eternal Oblivion has it mastered and able to cast three copies at once. He's working in Communion with another magus. Are all three castings affected by the Communion? I'd say so. Communion does not need to be cast, and the other magus is feeding power into the process throughout the round.

A group of four magi join in Communion. Can they each cast a spell, aided by the Communion, in that round? I'd say not, although I'm not sure that's supported by the RAW. I see the act of Communion, culminating in the target spell casting, as being everyone's action for that round. But can a different magus cast a different spell in each subsequent round? If the consensus is that no preparation is required, then yes. If the magi just have to "touch power rings" or some such act, then the Communion is open for all to take advantage of. But if the gathering of the Communion is specific to the target spell, then it needs to be broken and new preparations need to take place.

This is a powerful effect, but I think it needs to be handled right in open play so I'm looking for suggestions or rulings that you guys have made.

Thanks,

Mark

#2

IMO

  1. I think each magus has to cast the wizard communion (it's a spell).
  2. the cast spell must also be cast
  3. all spells cast in step 1 and 2 have +1 die botche for each magus. Heavy risk of botch!
  4. the whole thing takes one round (as per other MuVi)
#3

Just found this in Houses of Hermes: True Lineages, page 76

So that does support the view that you actually need to cast the spell in order to initiate the Communion. So, each magus casts the spell, and if successful they add the level they have cast to the running total? That's slightly at odds with the wording of the spell in ArM5. In that wording, you add the level you "know" the spell, not the level that you've cast.

Still not conclusive for me...

#4

Another thing - it is listed as a R: Voice T: Group spell. What is the target?

#5

On a somewhat related note:
Do the supporting magi need to know the effect of the spell they are supporting?
Or could they simply be hired for the casting.

#6

They don't need to know the spell but as this is a collaborative affair I'd be surprised if they didn't know up front what they're casting.

#7

  1. Wizard's communion needs to be cast. As per the RAW it is a normal spell, so only 1 round to cast. However, and as a HR, after some fairly abusive uses of the spell to overcome MR, we ruled that it is a ceremonial spell, so it needs to be casted ceremonially (5 minutes x magnitude) even if it does not require vis.

  2. Multicasting WC is useless IMS.

  3. One applicable to one spell. If you want the group to cast a second spell, use a communion again

  4. The supporting magi do not need to know the spell they are supporting.

Cheers,
Xavi

#8
  1. Up to this point I thought that it didn't require a seperate spellcasting roll, but I'll be looking the mentioned TL rule...
  2. Multiple casting; The divisor is dependant on the number of casters, not the number of spells. Thus multiple castings of the W.C. would be useful for multiple castings of the main spell, and for 3.
  3. One casting of W.C. per aided spell (or copy thereof). Thus, you'd need lots of multicasting mastery for this...
  4. They don't really need to know anything beyond who is the main caster, and the W.C. spell. They are effectivly batteries for the main caster... However, they would probably be considered legaly responsible for the spell, so would you really take help cast a spell you don't really know what does? (espesially, since as the caster, this could tecnically bypass your parma).
#9

I was hoping someone would comment on this. If Wizard's Communion is a T: Group spell, then it must be intended that the target be the group of magi casting the Communion together. And now, hello Parma Magica? Does everyone have to lower their Parma while they all cast the Communion (and hence all succeed at a Concentration roll to cast their copy)? (Or do people just cast the Communion with enough penetration to get through? I suppose everyone could protect their neighbor with their Parma to lower their scores, but there would still be Form bonuses to overcome, so a bit of nontrivial penetration would be necessary....)

#10

We have never thought about it.... My impression is that WC is a Vim spell, so the target would be all the mini-spells that the magi taking part in the communion are casting (T:group of spells). The magi are not the target since they cannot be the target of a MuVi spell to affect spells: magi are not spells, they are spellcasters.

Xavi

#11

As I understand it, the actual target of the W.C. is the spell being cast. It is group because it has more than a single source.
However, as I would read it, the W.C. makes all the participants casters. Therefore if the final spell is cast with range:self, it bypasses parma.

#12

OK, having the target of Wizard's Communion be the group of Communion spells being simultaneously cast, that makes sense (IC and OOC).

Ulf, you're not suggesting that a Range: Personal spell would actually affect all of the Communion participants, are you? Wizard's Communion is for casting high-level spells, not extending the effect of spells.

#13

So, how would people play that with The Intangable Tunnel. For instance, if two mages knew Wizards communion at L25 each, and knew The Intangable Tunnel at L15 and knew Poising the Silent Question, a L20 spell, can he now cast Poising the Silent Question through The Intangable Tunnel? If so, is there a limit to the penetration that this spell would have?

#14

Salvete, Sodales!

Just my two Mythic pennies: I'd say "Range: Personal" would work, but to affect the group, I'd still need "Target: Group". Designing spells specifically for this useseems acceptable to me.
On a second thought I am not sure whether this couldn't even be possible outside of a WC as well. If I have a Group-spell with Range Touch I only have to touch one member of the group, so one might argue that I could use group spells with Range Personel just as long as I am a member of that group. THis has not come up in our campaign, but my players being creative I will probably just have to wait. So, what's your opinion?

Vale,
Alexios ex Miscellanea

#15

I think this is a reasonable argument to make a priori, but (Serf's Parma) I think the core rules explicitly say "if the Range is Personal then the Target has to be Individual or Part".

#16

Salvete, Sodales!

I just looked it up, and I must confess: You are right (cf. Core Rules p. 111).

Vale, Alexios ex Miscellanea

#17

Hmm - I always took that to mean that you could only affect yourself or parts of yourself with a range:personal spell, so at least IMS it will be possible to use group target for personal spells (in most cases not very useful though).