I suspect that part of the problem is that you can't fix something that is broken simply by clarifying it- at some point it has to be changed in some way.
This is definitely the problem. We should have revised Aegis when we revised Magic Resistance. However, we didn't, and now is not the point at which we should make changes.
I think I was playing with house rules. I can't see anything in the printed version of Aegis that excludes Parma.
2 Likes
Thanks for replying.
This seems to imply that re-casting an Aegis on the same Boundary on e.g. the Summer Solstice (after an initial casting on the Winter as is customary) would fully replace the original Aegis, rather than having two overlapping Aegises (with potentially different sets of natives and invitations) for the next two seasons.
This would admittedly make bookkeeping much easier in such a case, but the idea that a spell can be dispelled by recasting it is an exceedingly uncomfortable precedent. Particularly since it allows any magus who receives an invitation to an Aegis (and is capable of casting Aegis of the Hearth themself) to outright flip it on its native residents by simply casting their own Aegis on the same Boundary. The inevitable consequence is that magi are never, ever Invited to the aegises of covenants not their own, with the ensuing social consequences for the Order.
Edit: I see others have already raised this point.
I suspect the idea with the "when it was replaced", was that it would be replaced on the next year, but yes, that part is a bit unclear.
No. I've added this to the first paragraph:
Each casting of Aegis of the Hearth determines who and what is native and foreign without reference to any other Aegis, even if it is a new Aegis being cast, by the same group of magi on the same boundary, to replace their covenant's old Aegis.
I've revised that paragraph, mainly for wording:
Participants who have The Gift and have been opened to the Hermetic Arts are referred to here as "participating magi", although they may, for example, be apprentices. Participating magi, and only participating magi, can invite other individuals into the Aegis. This involves giving the individual a token that was designated as part of the ritual. Individuals that are invited in this way become natives of the Aegis. Any participating magus can also revoke an invitation, whether issued by themselves or by someone else. They do not need to retrieve the token in order to do this. Invitations and revocations can only be issued to specific individuals — it is not possible to revoke "all invitations", for example — but the individual does not need to be present. Invitations and revocations are effective even if the participating magus is mistaken about the identity of the individual. A participating magus can attempt to revoke an invitation even is they do not know for sure that a particular individual has been invited into the Aegis. If they were, then the invitation is revoked, but if they were not, this obviously has no effect. A creature with Might whose invitation is withdrawn is affected in the same way as a creature with Might who was within the Aegis when it was created. Individuals who participated in the ritual, including participants who are not participating magi, cannot be cast out of the ritual; they are native until the Aegis expires, or is dispelled.
But they can be things that are inside the Aegis at the moment that it comes into effect, such as an enchanted broom being flown through on a dare to catch the moment when the old Aegis fails. If you time it just right… I have revised the wording, though.
The first is items that were within the boundary at the time the Aegis was raised.
Replaced with "or dispelled".
PRAW, it does. She lands outside the Aegis, though.
This is up to troupe discretion. I think it might well apply to a lot of the cases you raise, but I don't want to try to be exhaustive in the core rules.
Given that the question of what happens in those cases has been raised in this discussion, I think it is necessary to say it. And I think "not having a Penetration" is pretty clear. If there are cases where it isn't, those are the cases that need the errata, not Aegis.
Rephrased to:
The supernatural powers of creatures with Might that have been able to enter the Aegis are affected in the same way as any other foreign supernatural effect.
No. It's a ritual. A spoon cannot participate in a ritual.
Sentient items are creatures with Might, per RoP:M.
It is, but I suspect that most people thought that, if you invited a maga in, her Talisman would also work within the Aegis, and that you didn't need to give her multiple tokens, one for her, one for her Talisman, one for her flying ring, and so on. Most covenants would run out of tokens if two Verditius arrived at once. Changed to "deliberately and directly" to block the shield, although I personally would not say that the shield is activated by the native — it activates in response to the native's action, but that is not the same at all.
1 Like
There is a certain issue regarding anything made by a native which is still unclear, which of these items would be considered native and which ones foreign?
- A founder made an enchanted item for the covenant which has stayed at the covenant but they entered twilight 2 years ago and haven't been heard from since.
- A verditius joined the covenant a year ago and was part of the aegis ritual this year. A rival of the covenant collects magical weapons made by this verditious in the past.
It is also apparent this would put a real cramp on magic item sales for covenants since an item purchased from outside the covenant will only become native if the enchanter joins. I believe all of these outcomes are at variance with the original aegis.
Yes. This item was within the aegis when it was cast.
I think you're remembering a previous version. The last one is quite clear that the item made by the native needs to also have been made within the aegis. So this is not native.
No, because the item bought from a verditius will become native the moment a new aegis is cast, or if it is used by someone who participated in the ritual, so there is no reason not to buy a foreign magical item, or not to sell a magical item to an outsider. Bear in mind that an Aegis has a duration of a year, so any item exported after being made by a crafter within an aegis loses nativeness within a few seasons.
What effect does the Aegis have on Certamen?
1 Like
No, it was made within a previous aegis.
No, I am going according to the text which was written above. The items whic a verditius made prior to joining are items which were made by a native (now) to the current aegis.
How? Using the text above, not your memory of how things have een or should be, when a new Aegis is cast the maker of those items is not in the aegis, and thus they are not native.
Upon review I see that
Supernatural effects created within the Aegis by non-natives are also limited. Sources that generate a casting total or similar must subtract half the level of the Aegis from this total. Sources that do not create a casting total, such as most supernatural creatures and enchanted items, must subtract half the level of the Aegis from their Penetration. Supernatural effects that have neither casting totals nor Penetration are completely unaffected.
Is contradicted in these specifics by the last guideline. Which does bring up the obvious flaw with this clarification, which is to say that it is long, cumbersome, and likely to generate confusion rather that clarification when it is not being gone over with a fine tooth comb.
See below:
Items created by a native of the aegis outside of the aegis (prior to joining) are not native, see below:
Also see below: