How to play a Bjornaer

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

@callen

@Ovarwa

RAW explicitly provides ways to get more virtues after character creation.

Yes, but if you look more carefully, does RAW ever say you can get past 10 points (10 + free Virtues, which includes from the House) of Virtues without being a Mythic Companion? No one has yet said that. They keep assuming it for the limit of 10 and other limits, but not for this one limit. Show me where RAW says starting with a full 10 doesn't stop you from gaining more.

I don't know if it explicitly says so, but there are explicit examples. For example, any Criamon path taken to its end.

Show me where RAW says you can have more than one Major Hermetic Virtue so that starting with one doesn't stop you from gaining one later.

grin I was waiting for this one. Indeed I can't, unless there is a magus writeup somewhere that has it. If not, a strict RAW reading would indeed preclude this.

For myself, I see no good reason why a magus should not start out with two majors, and I'd happily allow it during and after character creation. RAW, however, unless there's a counterexample, this restriction technically remains in place.

@Ovarwa

And CrMe and CrCo spells that improve characteristics clearly and explicitly stack.

Really? If it's explicit, you should be able to find it. And do note, while you look for it, that a spell that has ended is no longer stacking with anything.

Ok, so you're saying that using CrCo to increase a stat up to +1 stacks if you're doing it as a ritual, but not if you're doing it with a duration? Me, I'm saying that the guideline explicitly sets a limit, and it's not 'beyond the original characteristic,' so that other than the spell duration and possible warping for long-term effects, the spells do exactly the same thing.

@Ovarwa

Why? Tough increases Soak by +3, so if I have it twice, I can add +3 twice, for +6.
...
I can argue that neither does Tough. The first one increases your Soak by +3, and the second by another +3.

You misunderstand the math. You're making an assumption that is not necessitated, and you don't seem to realize it. What does Tough's statement mean? Does it mean your score is +3 higher than without Tough? Or does it mean your score is +3 higher than without that instance of Tough. As that's not defined, assuming one to say what you are about my statements is just a logical error.

You're making an assumption too. My assumption is that the virtue does what it says, adding 3 to Soak. So if I have it twice, I follow the rule twice, so x+3+3 = x+6. That math looks straightforward to me. Soak = Tough(Tough(Soak)). You're saying that I can have the virtue twice, but then assume that the Soak referred to in the virtue is always the original Soak, even though the virtue says no such thing.

Fortunately, ruling that one cannot take the same virtue twice does a great job preventing conversations like this at the table.

Here, it's something to do during lockdown.

@Ovarwa

You mentioned it, but I did not see the explanation.

@callen

For example, you have four enriched Object of Virtue in your Talisman. Puissant Art is always available to a Hermetic magus enriching an Object of Virtue if the Art is available for a bonus with that material. So let's say your Talisman gives Puissant Animal, Puissant Corpus, Puissant Rego, and Puissant Vim. You touch your Talisman, and you are granted all four simultaneously. Which two do you get.

Oh, then don't do that! I can also enchant an item four times to kill me four different ways when I touch it. How do I die? Or if I enchant the item twice to turn me into a wolf and into a bear when I touch it. Do I become a wolf or a bear? Or if I enchant it to teleport me to both Madrid and Cairo? Or...

Anyway,

Ken