How to purify a wound?

One more question from our last game-session:

How do you interpret the spell Purification of the festering wounds?

The Duration of the spell is Moon and the spelldescription states, the target may profit from the spell,

To be honest, I have difficulties to understand this wording.

Heavy wounds have a recovery interval longer than a month. Is it possible to purify a Heavy wound by this spell, too? Does this mean, that you better wait for two months and more before you cast the spell upon a target with a heavy wound? Do you have to cast the spell three times in a row upon a target with heavy wounds?

And more questions: Can you use the bonus of this spell for every recovery roll of a specific wound if you cast him again before the next recovery roll (or if his duration still holds up, in case of unlucky light wounds)? If you want to profit from the bonus after a combat even for the first recovery roll, you have to cast the spell before the injured target takes "excessive action" (RAW, p. 178), right?


I think what it's saying is that once you cast the spell, you start counting: if (for example), the patient had been recovering for a month before you cast the spell, you don't count that month in the recovery interval.

As to getting it to work? I'd say you just cast it multiple times, on the changing of the moon. Which means, yeah - in a hospital, you'll have the healer magi showing up every new moon to re-up all the healing spells.

I tend to interpret this as to not allow the periods to lapse, but IMO, I don't believe this is really an issue. It's enough for the magus to say that I'll recast this for the period of time the wounded person is recovering...

I'm not sure I understand your first question. It applies to all recovery rolls (to check for improvement), period, IMO. To the second question, the spell says explicitly recovery rolls to recover from. And it's not a recovery roll to ensure a wound isn't made worse, so no, you can't use the bonus to see if the wound gets worse if you read it plainly. IMO, this is what Bind Wounds is for.

Let´s say my character has a heavy wound. He receives "Purification of the festering wound" three times in a row, once in a month. A season later he rolls for recovery and his wound improves, it is a medium wound now. Can a magus cast the spell again to purify even the medium wound and restore the bonus for the next recovery roll? I think your answer is "yes", but that was my question. The phrase is too complex for my english. I still don´t know, what the second sentence ("The recovery interval is counted from the time that the spell is cast, any previous time is ignored.") means.

The last question didn´t have to do something with injured mages. I only wanted to know if it is possible for the spell to come behind time. For example: If my character got a heavy wound in combat and the next covenant with a magus able to cast "Purification of the Festering Wound" is 2 hours away in the mountains, is it possible to arrive there and profit from the bonus or do I have to roll for recovery prior to his arrival because the march is an excessive action?

One of my players tried to cast the spell prophylactic. In the morning his magus wanted to cast "Purification of the Festering Wound" on himself, just in case he would be injured the next month. Does T:Ind means, he is the target or a specific wound is the target? (I think the latter).


It applies to one person and all of the wounds on that person. If wounds improve, and the spell is still in effect, it applies to the improved wounds.

Two things going on here. The excessive action requires its own recovery roll, and the spell can be read such that it may not apply at all to the recovery roll, since recovery rolls due to exhertion cannot improve the wound and the spell says, "+9 bonus to Recovery rolls to recover from injuries or diseases." This is one of those YSMV things, I'd let it apply, but it certainly wouldn't make the wound better. And of course, Bind Wounds make a roll unnecessary, but of course, one doesn't heal when under the effect of this spell.

T: Ind in this case is he whole person, as the text of the spell says all wounds, and not only 1 wound.

Well, excuse me - it is difficult for me to express my problem. I don´t want to discuss the recovery roll due to exhertion, I want to discuss the time, the first recovery roll after an injury becomes due. RAW, p. 178 states: "Characters who are injured in a combat need not make Recovery rolls for further activities within that combat, but must make the rolls if they take excessive action afterwards." What counts as excessive action afterwards? And if excessive action was undertaken, then "Purification of the Festering Wound" comes to late to help providing a bonus for the first recovery roll, isn´t it? So, maybe the march to the covenant 2 hours away triggers the recovery roll for the injury taken in combat and the "Purification of the Festering Wound" the character can get there will be too late to provide the bonus for the first recovery roll...

This means, the prophylactic appliance of the spell is possible?


Don't worry, you express yourself very clearly (just a few subtle things in the way you construct your sentences suggest your native language is not English but ... German maybe?). I think it's the spell description that is unclear in this regard. Still, the only interpretation that I find reasonable is the following.

When you cast the spell, the time that any of your wounds or diseases has spent since its last recovery roll is effectively reset to 0: in other words, that wound or disease is "refreshed" to the state it had immediately after its last recovery roll. Then, any recovery roll you make while the spell is still active gets a +9 bonus.

Thus, if you were wounded one week ago with a wound that has a recovery interval of three weeks, and you were subjected to this spell, you would make your next roll after three more weeks, not two. If the spell lasted for at least three weeks (remember that a D:Moon spell lasts between two and four weeks) you'd gain the recovery bonus, otherwise you would not.

What counts as excessive action and what does not is described immediately afterwards, for different wound penalties. For example a character with wound penalty -6 or greater "can talk, eat, and move himself short distances given time and assistance. Productive activities (including study, Hermetic Lab work, and craft work) are impossible." Such a character would have to make a recovery roll the moment he tried to cast a fatiguing spell, and even moving slowly and with assistance would trigger a roll after, say, one or two hundred paces. On the other hand, at a penalty of -2 or -1, "a character can travel and study normally, but cannot undertake strenuous activities, including casting spells that cost Fatigue. Hermetic Lab work and craft work can be undertaken as normal." Casting a fatiguing spell in this case would still trigger a roll but walking around would not.

Yes. Once the recovery roll is made, casting the spell has no effect on that roll.


English is the idiot bastard child of incestuous European cousins. You are not alone. :wink:

o The recovery interval is counted // from the time that the spell is cast, any previous time is ignored.
o The recover time (starts) // from (the moment when the spell is cast). Any time (before that casting) is ignored.

? That clear it up a little?

"Excessive" is further defined under each category, by wound penalty, in the text from the end of p. 178 to the top of p. 179:

-6+ (can only "move himself short didtances given time and assistance")
-3 to -5 ("can walk... (if) he goes slowly and takes frequent rests")
-1 to -2 ("cannot undertake strenuous activity")

Beyond that, each of those is entirely up to you - base it on the story behind the wound and your understanding of the potentially "excessive" action (and possibly your mood, and how much you like the player).

Correct... (if I understand your question...)

Let's take an example:

A grog is injured, and has to run for his life*. Days later, an apprentice is found, and he casts a low-level PotFW. Over the next several days, the pair hike quickly* back to the Covenant over rough terrain*, and there a senior mage casts a bigger PotFW.

[i](* The rules (179, top) say wounded from -1 to -2 "can travel... but not undertake strenuous activities"", so here I'm ruling that sprinting or cross-country hiking is "strenuous". ysmv.

Note that different wound levels would have different restrictions on "excessive".)[/i]

o Grog takes Light Wound, -1. Healing for Light Wound (1 week) starts @ roll +0 (+ Stamina + Churgery + etc.)
o Out of combat, he runs for his life, = strenuous, = Recovery roll +0.
o Several days pass.
o Apprentice sponts PotFW +1. Healing for Light Wound (1 week) starts again@ roll +1
o The pair make a strenuous hike, = strenuous, = Recovery roll +1 (+ etc.)
o Several days pass.
o Senior mage casts PotFW +9, Healing for Light Wound (1 week) starts again @ roll +9
o 1 week passes, Recovery roll @ +9 (+ etc.), ~2 weeks after initial injury.

I would think so, but habitual use could cause Warping.

I think that is more important for 2 other reasons: 1), that you don't need 1 casting/wound, 1 casting affects all wound recovery rolls and 2) you don't need to "sense" the specific wound, but can simply heal the body.

But if it's running, yes, I'd rule that the bonus is in effect, even on fresh wounds during combat. Nice!

I've always had problems with the wording of this spell too. I wasn't sure what the confusing part ("The recovery interval is counted from the time that the spell is cast, any previous time is ignored") meant, but the answer you are all providing seems to make much sense.

I'll add another question: what about Incapacitating wounds? Can you just cast PotFW in the last second before the sun comes up (or down) and delay the Recovery roll until next sunrise/sunset?

Oh, and indefinitely delay an ugly recovery roll until "real help" can be found?

While intuitively that feels like a cheat, I think a little reflection supports it both by the letter of the rules and in the spirit of them!

(Edit - And a reading of the CrCo Guidelines (p 130)shows that the rules specifically state that's exactly how "a healing spell" works! And the PotFW spell description supports that for this effect.)

I was going to mention how "Unfortunately, magic delays the natural healing...", and if a character had a month-long recovery and the spell only was available on week 4, you might want to see how it went first before casting the spell. (But that is an optimist's view.)

No reason not to take advantage of the same aspect of the magic for your benefit.

If a patient was looking forward to a high-risk recovery roll, magi could intentionally and continually "delay" the natural healing with a small spell, indefinitely, until a large spell could be accessed. It not only works, I think the description invites it!

I wouldn't think it would even cause Warping*, but even then if the roll is looking that bad that may be preferable to the risk.

(* Constant effect, low power, partial season - see table, p. 168)

(And afaic, anything reasonable that helps a character, PC or NPC, "not die" (when that's what's desired by the PC's and/or GM) is a good thing.)

The spell to delay a recovery roll is a Moon duration Bind Wounds, IMO.

O.k., thank you. Now I understand how the spell works. Can you tell me a reason for this unusual extension of the recovery time? Why don´t you simply get a bonus for the next recovery roll - whenever he becomes due - and that´s it? If you use the spell, your total recovery time (before casting + after casting) becomes longer than usual. The spell does something good to you, but you need longer to recover: why?


You're welcome!

While that makes intuitive sense, depending on your definition of "a healing spell" it's wrong by the RAW, which make such a specialized spell totally unnecessary. The rules state - in so many words - that under "a healing spell" (other than a Momentary Ritual spell), natural healing is suspended - so any spell will do the job. (See p 130, CrCo spell guidelines, par i)

But, more specific to this discussion - the spell description under PotFW supports that interpretation for this spell.

Nope... no idea. :confused:

Actually, best guess is so that there is no quick "permanent" healing without vis. No "Cure Light/Moderate/Serious Wounds" spell that can be cast with a wave of the hand every day while the wound naturally heals so that nobody worries about it. Any spell that "heals" without vis is not permanent healing.

This means that (unlike some other RP games) combat is not something to be taken (as) lightly, even if nobody dies. Spells can delay the effects, but only while the spells are active. After the spells are discontinued, back to square one. That's magic that makes sure the Players appreciate it. :wink:

Don't use in so many words, use the exact words, because I don't read that the same way you do. Indeed, taken to your understanding healing spells that provide bonuses to healing should not work, as when the spell that provides a bonus to healing actually expires the wounds return to their original state.

Specifically, it's talking about Bind Wounds or longer duration spells that heal, such as a D:Sun version of The Chiurgeon's Healing Touch, or some variant for higher level wounds.

(Those terms mean the same thing, in this context.)

However, I agree with your objection as it had been written, and in fact I was editing the above as you posted this.

So I'll just copy/paste from above and you can reconsider your objections.

So, even if you, personally, don't include PotFW as a "healing spell" in that sense - the rules do, intentionally or no.

A healing spell is a spell that returns you to some fashion of wholeness. Bind Wounds being the least of the spells, that you can move about without making the wound worse but have all of the penalties. Versions of other spells with durations other than Momentary rituals are also examples of these, the wounds aren't healed, and cannot heal at all until the magic is gone. Nor can they worsen.

Spells that provide bonuses to healing aren't spells that provide any healing in and of themselves, they augment the natural process. So, even semantically, they aren't healing spells as they provide no actual healing.

First, that's your personal definition, not some absolute truth.

More, the spell description for PotFW supports my interpretation, intentionally or no.

(So those at home can follow along, the exact wording is...

...and then...

(* Thus this spell is not a Momentary duration ritual)

Look at the guidelines.
The language is "give a character a +3 bonus to Recovery Rolls" of which PotFW provides a +9 bonus, at the Level 4 guideline.
Level 3 is prevent all wounds from getting worse.

Then we have the ones that heal, Level 15, Level 20, Level 25, Level 30 all heal increasing levels of wound severity for one wound from Light to Incapacitated. It's Heal, as in a healing spell. Not all CrCo spells are healing spells.

If you want PotFW to work, it can't be a healing spell, because at the end of Moon duration, the wounds would return to whatever it was before the spell was cast, and that is plainly not the intent of the spell.

And you should look at the written description under PotFW, and tell me why that does NOT do exactly the same thing, if only by accident.

It's not that I don't see what you're saying, nor why. I do.

It's not that I believe your interpretation is not workable, even "better" than mine.

What I disagree with is how cut and dried you pretend it is, and that yours is somehow RAW and not a Houserule. You ask me to accept your interpretation - I ask you to explain the text away.

I agree that there is contradiction (or at the very least room for interpretation). I do not agree that it is as clear cut as you present it. Nor do I agree that the Rules fully support your view (even if they support mine to no much greater degree).

If I had been writing those spell guidelines, I've had avoided this by stating that one RR is made at the end of the normal period (after the initial injury), then if that fails to heal then the same value is used again, with bonus, at the end of the period after the spell is cast. If the 2nd value (same roll w/ bonus) succeeds, then the healing occurs there. That is, you make 1 roll, but take the better value if necessary if the first doesn't give the desired healing effect. After that, the interval for healing is based on the last RR, and so on.

But that's more complex to explain and keep track of, so... meh, KISS, and just start over with the better healing bonus.

Oh, wait - I said "healing"... doesn't that make that a healing spell as well?

Unfortunately, the phrase "healing spell" can be either a specific or general term. And - hate to tell ya - the Rules seem to include both under that category, the general use over the specific.

Look up "Healing Spells" in the index. That sends you to Page 180, and a sub-section entitled (yes) "Healing Spells". And both types are, specifically, mentioned under that umbrella term.

The term might have been specific - but it doesn't have to be, and the game doesn't seem to force the distinction, and quite the opposite. You can say that's just an editor's convenience - and it may well be - but that means one more re-interpretation to support your position.

No, that's not how it works at all. (If you can "see" how it works, then so can I.)

At the end of the duration, the wound heals with the bonus or it doesn't. Because it's magical, it all happens at that moment (more or less). Who's to say it doesn't?

And if not, how would you explain that PotFW does NOT delay the RR when the description says it does? Perhaps it delays the RR if the Player isn't trying to delay it, but doesn't if they are?

And before you say the obvious ("that the Recovery Roll (RR) is made at the end of the spell period anyway, no delay"), what if a +1, then a +3, and then a +6 were thrown at it, successively? Do you delay the RR or force it with the lesser value, or wait for the greater value, or...?

And you keep conveniently not addressing this. :wink:

There is nothing wrong with your interpretation except 1) that it's premised solely on your personal interpretation that only spells that immediately remove wounds (instantly or temporarily) are "healing spells", and 2) you aggressively ignore the fact that the description of PotFW clearly states that it does exactly what you say it doesn't do.

Fine, it's an unwritten house rule. It's a much simpler interpretation to follow, IMO.

Wait, what? At the end of the duration, the wound heals with the bonus or it doesn't? The +9 bonus from the spell PotFW lasts for moon. Healing from a heavy wound takes a season go from heavy to medium. If the spell expires after a month it gets a roll for healing? This is what you seem to be saying, that I know that bonuses to recovery can't speed up the rate of healing. And he can't heal a light wound faster than a month while under the influence of the spell?

I don't understand what you're saying here. Recovery periods are clearly indicate in the last table on page 179. If you want the PotFW to apply to the recovery roll, it has to be in effect for the entire season, in fact the section you identified on page 180 makes that explicit. You don't get a recovery roll when the spell ends, but when your wound level indicates.

I didn't know I had to address anything. Or what I'm supposed to be addressing.

Sure, there are healing spells by definition and guideline. Maybe the inclusion of PotFW under the heading of Healing Spells on page 180 isn't an editorial convenience, I'll give you that.

What am I saying PotFW doesn't do, again? That it delays a recovery roll? No, I don't agree that it does delay recovery rolls. Not at all. There's no language that suggests that they do delay recovery rolls. In fact, quite the opposite, they aid recovery rolls and recovery rolls with these spells still happen at regular intervals, based on the chart on page 179. Or does it now take a month to heal a light wound, because he's under the effect of a spell that supposedly delays the healing of the spell to moon duration, and can a heavy wound now be miraculously improved in a season because I don't think the spell allows that, but your language suggests that you think so.

Quite simply if it provides a bonus to recovery it augments the natural healing process, and doesn't suppress it. If you Bind Wounds or cast longer duration versions of spells that can heal wounds instantly with a ritual, such as a Sun duration Chiurgeon's Healing Touch, then it doesn't heal and the wound reverts to normal. Further, under the effect of either Bind Wounds or a duration spell that heals, you don't improve your healing, nor do you make things worse. If that's a House Rule, I'll make it.