How would you handle this?

I think there's really an open question here for the storyguide to decide as to whether magi have their own equivalent of clerical immunity. The way the Ex Misc. acts makes it certainly seem like he reasonably expected that to be the case, and if not, why did he think that way?

While the official ArM books don't suggest this, there's nothing that makes it absolute that Guernicus didn't broker some kind of deal with the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor such that members of the Order, unless the Church says otherwise, must be tried for their crimes by the Quaesitores, and not the mundane authorities. That might be more true the closer you get to Rome (and therefore ignored in Novgorod or Alexandria), but it would both make it easier for the Quaesitores to police interference with mundanes and it would make it a High Crime not to turn the Ex Misc. in this case to the local Quaesitores, regardless of the noble's lust for vengeance.

Thank you, ThePendant, for reminding me of my own decision concerning that matter.

In my saga the Order is recognized by both the Church and the nobility and holds legal authority over "matters of magic." In fact, the half-fae bard who was present at this event was actually introduced to the saga when the magi (including the Bonisagus) were called to serve as a Wizards Council for his trial on charges of seducing a woman by magic (Enchanting Music).

Except you would have to do it to ALL witnesses AND make sure there is no written records about it ANYWHERE, that not a single person discussed it with ANYONE beyond those you meddled with the minds of, make sure there are no external traces of whatever happened(an unexplained corpse can be so inopportune), etc etc...

Mind controlling is usually not a good idea for handling matters regarding mundane law unless its just at most a handful of people somewhere isolated. Otherwise there will usually be witnesses that you dont know about. And then its a darn good way of creating a holy crusade incoming quickly on your covenant.

And of course, you also assume that the judge CAN be mind controlled, what if he has divine protection, or has obtained magical protection? Try mindcontrolling him then and watch your credibility and chance of survival go down the drain ASAP.

Thats the error most people do in games like this, assuming that brute force can and will solve everything, and leave out the inconvenient parts that would likely still be a problem if played realistically.

Hmm thats actually a good idea i think. We have had it alot less official so far. I think running it as an official setup sounds much more potentiall fun though.

My my, what a lot of good opinions. :slight_smile: But for my 2 cents:

The Bonisagus:

  1. If he used magic to detect the ex misc - scryed upon a fellow member of the order, the HOH TL suggests using detection spells without penetration to avoid getting caught by this.
  2. As for attacking the other member of the Order, that I don't see as against the Code. Forbidden is slaying, not attacking another magus, although if the Ex Misc had killed the player in defending himself he could have claimed provocation.
    3 ) He can however definately be held accountable for Deprivation of Magical Power (He had the Ex Misc bound and gagged before putting him into a deadly situation), and also Mundane Interferance (If he was not caught up in mundane politics, he wouldnt have interfered in the Ex Miscs business and attacked and exposed him)

The Ex Misc:
He is only guilty of Mundane Interference, as assassinating a mundane noble is sufficiently political an action to qualify and his action caused a sticky situation to arise for another member of the Order.
The charge of attacking an enemy of the Order is unlikely to qualify, nor is Endangerment as the consequences seem to be fairly contained.

Yeah you could let the Ex Misc die and then he can't bring charges. However he is unlikely to have so few friends that none of them will go looking for him. Other members of the Order could consider the Bonisagus getting him caught and executed as quite sufficient cause to declare Wizards War, so stay away from Redcaps.

You have the Order as having legal authority over matters of magic, so you could have him held in the church until the quaesitores come to take him away for a trial, however that would require a substantially altered Code. A mortal authority giving up a criminal to the Order and being told he would be released as none of the Code was broken would be quiet upset. Or you could have the Church claim authority as it was in eclesiastical grounds that the crime was committed so they have jurisdiction. That would also mean leaving the magi on church ground until the trial. As for giving the magi over to the noble and executing him without a trial, I would frown on this. Depending on which state this was in, different laws and procedures must be followed. For example in england he would be held until the roving justices came for an assize, then the local coroner would have to provide the evidence and bring the witnesses to the event. For a noble to execute someone without a trial, even a dangerous magi would have reprecussions, as there were viable alternatives like the Order or the Church who could handle him.

My solution:
If you don't want the Ex Misc dead (to avoid reprecussion for the Bonisagus), but don't want it to be covered up by the Order of Hermes, then go for a good old cheat:
Let the PC suggest to the noble and the Church that as no one was actually hurt the Ex Misc can repent for his sins by being declared outlaw. Basically get out of the country and if you are seen back then anyone can kill you. The Ex Misc can either live the rest of his life in disguise or join another tribunal, he can take his toys with him and he might be so relieved at getting out alive that he doesn't take revenge.