HR and CD discussion

If I have a character 30 years past Gauntlet, I can have up to 90 vis. This may be used during development or conserved. Ok. I will have to think carefully about the stat enhancement ritual - it's not cheap at all. Given the added risk of botching, it does make sense. Is a +1 Intelligence work 36 pawns of vis? I'm wondering. It would add one to my Lab totals, and everyone needs a higher Lab total...

Jonathan, it's good to have you back.

A simple matter of perspective. I didn't start out trying to do a run-around of your advancement rules. I thought what I was doing was reasonable. It's all just a matter of misunderstanding, despite the appearances.

I wasn't trying to be. I didn't go to the maximum of 20th magnitude, after all, even though I would have had the vis (with Personal Vis Source). Looking back, I see that even 18th seemed excessive.

And I probably reacted emotionally to your recent (clearer) ruling regarding Personal Vis Source during development, so that my tone has been a bit more provocative that what I usually use. Tweaking you a little, perhaps. :blush: :wink:

Still waiting for answers to those questions before starting over. What about the sale value charged items?

P.S. Welcome back indeed Jonathan! I'm happy that you're feeling better, despite my earlier grouchy tone.

Seems reasonable enough to me that the pricing of magic items is at the full cost it would take a "normal" magus to make an item, and not the discounted cost of a Verditius, or the inflated cost of someone like a Waster of Vis would have to charge.

No, all lab notes for lab work will be in the magus's property. They will be in the magus's shorthand, though and need to be translated or for it to be discovered.

Yeah, I can see the allure to doing that. However, I think that this would be a task that any Verditius would find unworthy of his Art. These would be exceedingly rare commissions, IMO, with only items that have a lot of components, or a high vis cost for preparing being eligible. Say 8 components (shape and material limits) or at least 20 pawns needed to open the item?

Seems to me this service would be in high demand, since an item prepared by a Verditius grants a bonus to any further enchantment due to the inclusion of Verditius Runes (which adds the Verditius' Philosophiae score to any further enchantments). And a Verditius who doesn't (yet) have the Hubris (and isn't Proud) would not automatically consider this an unworthy task.

For example, Bartholomeus never gets introduced to any of the Inner Mysteries of House Verditius, because of his reputation. That is a design choice for the character, but which limits his power. But that also means he never gains Hubris, so he would certainly consider cathering to this market. Which would only feed his bad reputation within the House. Makes sense?

As you wrote yourself, it is a trade off between time and vis. If I consider his stats at Gauntlet, the largest item Bartholomeus would be able to prepare initially would be 17 pawns. After 55 xp spread between Craft (to 5+specialty) and Magic Theory (to 6+specialty), he reaches the treshold of 20, so that isn't really a barrier for long anyway. That would gain him a net of 46 pawns of vis for a single season in the lab (a 20-pawn item invested for 14 actual pawns, sold for 60 pawns).

There's probably not a huge market for such high-value items, so I don't think he could do this more than once. It would actually make much more sense to sell lower-value prepared items instead. There would be much more market for prepared items in the 8-16 range, I think. High-value items are more interesting as talismans, but those cannot be prepared by someone else.

So the vis-space treshold isn't really the real barrier. It is more a matter of market demand, IMHO.

Another set of questions/clarifications.

If I have a lab text for a power for a greater device, (e.g. a staff), I can use it to invest the same power into another greater device with the same shape and material. Can the new greater device have additional S&M bonus that the original didn't have, if I don't use them to invest the power?

For example, if I have a lab text to invest Pilum of Fire into a staff (+4 project missile) made of oak (no S&M used). Can I invest it into a staff made of ash? With a ruby inset on the staff (though the "+6 fire" bonus wouldn't apply)?

If the previous is true, can I use such a lab text to invest the power into my talisman, provided it matches the shape and material of the lab text?

What about the reverse. If I enchant a power into my talisman for which I don't need the talisman bonus (+5). Can I (not another magus) use that lab text to invest the same power into a normal greater device (not my talisman) that matches the shape and material of that lab text?

My basic assumptions are that all of the above have "yes" for an answer, but I'd like to be sure before I spend time designing effects during my revised character advancement.

My suggestion on Arthur's question on lab text flexibility is to still consider the lab text providing a bonus equivalent to a similar spell, even if it cannot be used to create a variant item. It means LTs have value beyond one or two uses.

Like Arthur, I asked a question about a possible choice. What if I make an Automaton that looks like me, and use it to represent me. My question was asked here: [url]https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/is-this-scrying-violating-the-code/11229/1], to see if I violated the code about scrying.

If this is ok, I'll go ahead. If there is a magical disease, then creating a person who can interact with people without catching the vapors that spread the affliction is a very good idea.

Is this ok?

I would stand by what I said in your thread but in this game you could get away with it. We are fleeing and really do not want to see anyone. My mage would not care as long as she knows that your mage can sense through the Automaton.

Three more questions:

  1. For my talisman, I'm envisioning a full head covering that would be a Helmet and Mask, like a Grecian war helm. Is this OK, or should I choose only one of the two?

Edited: 2nd question - For lab activities set before play begins, are we allowed to use experimentation? (I have one thing I'm just 4 points shy...) Jebrick has a link to a die roller that you can read to verify results. In any case, there's a roll necessary when you build Automata.

Edited again! 3rd Question - I just reread Apprentices, and it notes that the child of two Gifted parents isn't necessarily Gifted. Whether or not my child is Gifted impacts development severely - I need to spend several seasons getting five Arts up to 5, in addition to getting my Intelligo Vim lab total up to 30. It's your call whether or not that's true.

I want to add a very common spell to Agnarr during his advancement. Are spells from the Ars core books considered common enough that we would have a lab text to study from?
e.g. Shackles of Frozen Ice (ReAq20), from HoH:S, p.35.

Ok, I'm looking for a new major hermetic flaw, and here are my constraints :
-must not be a necessary condition
-I'm looking for a flaw linked to the fact the is always on the move and forced to travel, and that his magic won't support him if he settles.

Would anyone have an idea that would fit ?

I was thinking its like you are cursed with entropy and constantly moving avoids the compounding effect. If you return to the same area before the latent entropy has dispersed you start getting it again faster.
What about a form of Greater Malediction? (p54 Ars), involving the enmity of a supernatural entity who sought to restrict your power.
You are cursed to acquire a compounding twilight backlash, which applies a -1 penalty to your check to control twilight. Or an additional botch dice per week or faction of.

That's more or less what I think I'm going for, but the chase has been so long that it's become an inherent aspect of Atlas' lineage and tradition. Thus, I'm looking not only for the adequate flaws to reflect this, but also hermetic restrictions to his magic, because his magic has internalized this component.

If a greater malediction relates to hermetic enough, can I consider it to be a major hermetic flaw ? That would be akin to making a custom hermetic flaw.

Up to JL. The only reason Greater Malediction is general supernatural is because its meant to have the same impact as other major flaws, so was general. Having an impact to hermetic powers makes it Hermetic imho.
I couldn't find a cannon flaw to suit your goal.

Canonically, you are correct. The chance of one (or two) Gifted magi having a Gifted child is no greater than the chance for non-Gifted parents to have a Gifted child, i.e., extremely small. Figuring out how to have more Gifted children is a classic conundrum, particularly for House Mercere, who have been trying to figure out a way to guarantee a Gifted birth for centuries. Changing that would have a significant impact on the entire game world.

It's the challenge of having an ex Misc. Greater Malediction is not a Hermetic Flaw.

Right now, my problem is not that I have no idea, or that they aren't hermetic flaws. My problem is more with the fact that the hermetic flaws as described in the core book fail to frame the concept I want for my character.

I understand that greater malediction is not a hermetic flaw as described in the book, but would you accept that I suggest a new hermettic flaw to fit my need ?

What about Restriction (standing still) as I suggested earlier?

Study Requirement could work well for such a character, as he would wander from one study site to another to improve his Arts.

Another possibility that I can see is Deficient Rego. He needs to travel all the time, but he must walk most of the time! (Yes, Rego is so very useful that players almost never take Deficient in it. But it might work for some concepts.)

Let me step back and ask, how does having a Gifted child impact development of your character?

I guess I'm not entirely clear on what your need is? I'm personally a fan of all of the Major Hermetic Flaws, so I'm not interested in substitutions.

Unless they are specified as belonging to a house/cult/tradition, they are widely available.