Incantation of Lighting and warping

I ignore the man behind the curtain.
usually it isn't constantly on. You turn it on and off with regularity. But mainly I just ignore it. As a storyguide, I have many more things to keep track of, and hiding behind a rock to jump out and say "Ha! Gotcha on Warping!" is simply not one of my priorities. Major instances; Longevity potions, living in a powerful aura, eating vis, stuff like that; I'll keep track of warping. Other sources are too much of a nuisance.

And i add my agreeing to that as well. If its a 6th magnitude ongoing for a year, thats perhaps another thing, but momentary and the magic itself not even striking the target directly? Nonono!

Yeah thats not entirely uncommon here either. :wink:

Which is why we raised the "floor" for what causes it and eventually(played out actually) added a spell that can remove a small degree of warping, but is VERY high level itself.
IIRC, lvl 70 to remove 6wp as the "standard spell". 8)

Then should The Enigma's Gift (ArM5, page 157)? It grants 4 warping points to the target person. However, its Target is Vim, not Corpus. The spell, like IoL and WWW is cast on a target person, even though they don't actually have that Target.

Furthermore, as a 30th level spell (and therefore "powerful effect"), does it also cause an additional warping point?

[NB: I'm undecided on this issue; there's no agenda here. I've always treated spells like IoL as causing warping on the air and on the victim - there's a story seed about rarefying an elemental in RoP:M based on this very premise]

Mark

The Warping it inflicts is akin to the damage a Lightning Bolt causes, you are creating warping upon the subject person. I would say no to the extra point though. As for rarifying an elemental, I happen to know that you and your players have a low-fantasy game with strict interpretations and additions. You guys like it that way, and you see a story hook in it. That's cool. It is not my style though, and I feel that too many sg's like to hide behind rocks and jup uot and say "gotcha!" when the players make the slightest little transgression, like casting a level 30 healing ritual. (I think Incantation of the Body Made Whole whould cause a point of Warping, but not Gentle touch of Asclepius because it is less than 7th magnitude)

I think i would do like that:

  • if target corpus or mentem and level 30>, warping.
  • if effect is causing warping (CrVi i think), warping

And that's all for the spells.
So, a fire ball dont warp.

I think I would say that certain types of spells won't cause warping as well. Intellego spells which don't actually change, modify or alter the person should really not cause much warping. So Peering into the mortal mind which lets a wizard see information should not cause warping nor a spell like Eyes of the Sage (inCo) that lets you see person and all around the person).

In general,

Intellego would require either very high magnitudes (10th or more) or huge amounts of vis to cause warping because it is perception and observation.

For forms that match the type of creature (Co for humans, An for animals, He for plants, Element for elementals): momentary Creo healing spells of high magnitude, Muto, Perdo and Rego of greater than momentary duration and high magnitude (I like 35+) will cause warping.

For creatures with intelligence: Creo/Muto/Perdo/Rego Mentem spells of high magnitude and duration greater than momentary will cause warping.

For other forms, it depends on the situation and duration. A ward against heat and flames vs +25 flames (level 35) if kept active for a moon will likely cause warping, kept active for two minutes is not. It is just like present of a powerful aura, it takes time to warp the target.

I would say Vi should generally cause warping at high magnitudes because of the nature of the form within reason. A spell to create 4 pts of warping is probably really 3 pts from spell and 1 from the high level.

People are acting as if one lightning bolt would warp the person in question - it doesn't. It doesn't even come close!

One "Powerful Magical Effect" gives a single, one (1) Warping Point - that's all. That's not "warping", it's not anything.

A person needs five (5) warping points before they pick up an appropriate Minor Flaw. And they don't get a 2nd flaw until they pick up another 25 such points. That's not a "gotcha", that's how the world works, slow and steady, and something that can be seen coming a mile away.

And you know something? If a character were hit by FIVE magical lightning bolts, or FIVE balls of fire... I think they might deserve an appropriate Minor Flaw.

(Call me a killer game master if ya want, I guess I'm just cold that way.)

I know you are a killer DM, but I like you anyway :wink:
Okay, let us say he is on his fourth year of longevity, then gets hit with IoL. He miraculously survives somehow. While he is out of game recovering, to say "oh, now you are at 5 Warping Points, you have a new flaw", that's just mean.

And if they got hit with 5 BoaFs or 5 IoLs, the appropriate flaw should be Dead, or some sort of permenant physical impairment. If the new flaw is Lame or somesuch, I would be more able to swallow that then a new Personality or Supernatural flaw. So perhaps we have a compromise in that situation.

If I get hit by 5 penetrating BOAFs and survive, I can pretty much guarantee that I will develop the reckless or bragging mental flaw, though :stuck_out_tongue: Still, I am among those that do not like power surges causing warping. At least not such "relatively common" power surges. Slow and steady is constant use to me, like being hit by magic daily. Power surges can cause one point of warping once in a while, but it is the daily effect of magic like living under an Aegis that causes warping IMS. YMMV since this is not RAW at all :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Xavi

"Appropriate" is just that - and up to the individual troupe.

A shock of white hair that disturbs people, or having all the hair on your body burnt off, both of those could be "appropriate" too. Or a delusion or personality quirk. Or a facial twitch, or maybe a phobia. They don't have to be supernatural, mystical flaws.

As you say, a small flaw will seem insiginificant if they can actually survive 5 such.

After reading all these posts and the RoP:Magic on rarefying, I changed my opinion :
In my game, conditions for warping will be :

  • The target should be interpreted with the Form : you may warp stones with Terram, someone with Corpus or Mentem
  • Spells intended for a specific target will not warp their target, for example personnal spells should be designed as to avoid warping
  • Intellego will not warp
  • A powerful effect is subjective and should be evaluated on a case by case. Momentary Creo Rituals (=permanent) would qualify. I still feel like anything of level 30 of more would warp (with the criteria above), regardless of spell guidelines. (Even though I'm not convinced that range changes anything to warping, I believe we can argue that longer duration increases the chance to get warped)

In that case :

  • No further warping from Enigma's Gift
  • No warping from Ball of Abysmal Flame

Xa

I feel the approach in line with my sense of Mythic Europe Magic

I can think of a better way to judge warping.

  1. Long term effects are already covered on their own
  2. Auras are covered.
  3. Intellego never causes warping
  4. Other techniques for non-ritual spells: BASE effect is 4th manitude for base or 6th magnitude for base + duration. This means a spell that is base 5 but is level 30 because it is touch (+1), Sun (+2), group (+2) for level 30 will not warp.
  5. Ritual or requires Vis
  6. Spell specifically says it is causes warping. (CrVi spell mentioned)

So your level 30 creo Corpus ritual will warp because it is ritual and uses vis. Your incantation of lightning will not cause warping because it is really only base 5. This means if you make a level 15 spell at touch into level 30 by changing it to arcane connection range, it still would not cause warping.

I chose 4th for base by looking at a lot of spells and what level 20+ can really do and then factored in that time for magic to have effect is also a factor. The fact that you targeted only part of a person rather than whole person or 10 people instead of 1 should not have impact on the warping and that you needed more power to get it to target (voice vs eye vs touch), also should not be a factor. Requisites or complexity also should not be factors in determining warping.

I like your way of thinking, ladyphoenix.