Intellego doubt

Hi everyone, i am almost sure about that in the basics rules Intellego is not affected about the Size; but after i see spells with Size magnitudes. Is this real or i am victim of a Phantasma effect?

Mmm, good question... Where did you find Intellego spells using size modifiers?

AM5 p.113, Target and Sizes Sidebar, second paragraph, first sentence, and same sidebar, first line of the recap at the bottom.

Voice of the Lake, p.122 "Genuine Lakes are generally too large for this spell to affect." implying the spell would need a size modifier.
Sailor's Foretaste of the Morrow, p.120 has a +1 size modifier
Sense the Feet that Tread the Earth, p.154 has a +3 size modifier

Looking at the three spells, my comments are:

  • that for the first spell, Voice of the Lake, what we have is an absolutely typical 'speak with a ..." spell, which is exactly what should not be affected by size, and in fact isn't in such spells as Words of Flickering Flame (speak with a fire), Converse with Plant and Tree (speak with a tree), or Stone Tells of the Mind that Sits (speak with a rock). So I believe the fluff text should be ignored. However, it does raise the possibility of speaking to the whole Atlantic Ocean with a relatively low level spell, so the ST might want to limit the spell anyway, perhaps ruling that very large bodies of water do not in fact have one mind, but severals (based on currents, underwater relief, or whatever, and you only contact the closest. Or that they would not bother to answer that tiny speck of matter (yes I mean the caster) sitting on a beach somewhere.

  • for the second spell, Sailor's Foretaste of the Morrow, the spell needs to absorb a lot of information from potentially a lot of separate clouds, winds, and so forth (because it's not the clouds above your head that matter so much as those coming from farther away), and has a Group target, so you could argue that the modifier is not due to the size of the targets but their number, which does not contradict the rules.

  • the third spell is the real problem. It has a Part target, it most definitely uses its large size modifier to increase the size of said Part, and it would be absolutely ridiculous if it were not bonded in some way. Otherwise the spell could just affect the whole Earth, which is ridiculous. And unlike a 'speak with a ...' spell, which is inherently limited by the speed of conversation, this one gives all the information at once. It is, in fact, trying to cleverly get around the lack of 'area' Target in Hermetic Magic (not the only spell that does, mind you), and doing it in a ways that works, too, except it contradict that 'Intelligo target and sizes' rule. Best just to let it slip through undisturbed.

If you really want to 'fix' the problem, such as it is, the best way I can come up with is to house rules that Intelligo spell that are about speaking with the target, or collecting one piece of information from it, are not affected by size. Spells that involve collecting information based on the size of the target (so the bigger the target, the more information) should be affected by size. But really, the best thing to do is to just accept the dissenting spells as is, and instead rely on the good old 'the ST can slap additional magnitudes to any spell if he deems it necessary' for custom spells to keep the balance.

So it should be then Complexity factor more that "True" Size.
I'should say that is more near to more near to human objectives: one forest fire could be quested about his first point or orign, one Statue of Size +3 could be quested with the Size. The problem are the real complex and massive i suppose.
Thanks by your answer, i take the line of the Rule. I think that should be Errated with a "Generally ..." or "... with exceptions"

To me it makes sense that Intellego is modified for size. A huge lake or large tree is more interesting to speak with than a small pool or a sapling. I believe the larger/older specimens are more aware and have more to tell (which may not be good, you do not want to hear the life story of a 500 year old oak!). Also there is more information - be it mundane or supernatural - to learn so it sounds reasonable to me that it takes more effort (because it takes no more time) to glean information from a larger specimen.

But minds are without size because they are intangible so Mentem is mever modfied for size. And I don't think Imaginem is modified for size either, but i could easily be wrong. I can't recall how species are defined. Does it tae more effort to cast Veil of Invisibility on an elefant then on a human? Can the core rulebook spell be used as is for the large target? Does the elefant emit more species or just larger ones?

Species are affected by Sizes, specially the visual (the basis are one adult or similar on size thing)
I think that "Speak with" should not totally affected by Size, but differents spells should work to differents Sizes (same level but differents rules) or that spells need be casted with the sense rules and not sufficient to the touch and so. For example to talk with a great body of water should be with the Voice Range and Objective Hearing.

I must add some point more, checked the rule.
I think that the "Size" on this spells are just like the "Type" of Wound or the "Severity" of one Illness on Creo Corpus/Animal spells; but i feel that to be just with the rule, the spells should not add Size modifier if not a Size Objective in the design, i mean that one spell to talk great bodys of water doesn't cover a Lake nor one Lake designed spell didn't work on the bodies of water, but you could design one with Size or not.