Intellego Imaginem


I am finding a problem with Intellego Imaginem rules.
So, usually the Range of the spell is the "distance" from the caster to the affected entity.
I.e. Self, Touch, Voice... in order to cast a Pilum of Fire this is pretty clear.

The Target is also quite clear: Individual, Group...

OK, now I am trying to create an Intellego Imaginem spell that uses the Level 1 base of "Use one sense at a distance" (Core ArM5 rules p. 145)

The spells I am finding in the book (i.e "The Ear for Distant Voices"), use the Range as the "distance" that the sense can be used at, not the range to the "receiver" of the effect.

So, the spell I want to design allows you to use your normal hearing as if you were on a specific spot that you can see. Following the lead of "The Ear for Distant Voices" that would be range "sight"... but I need "another range" so I can cast this spell on another person (let's say a companion) so it is that other person and not the magus who will be able to use her hearing at a sight range.

How do I design that? Do I add magnitudes for the "distance" that I can use the hearing and more magnitudes for the range the recipient of such ability will be from my magus?

And then there is the Target. I want to hear a conversation between several people that I want to eavesdrop on... should it be Target: Group? But then again, I am not "affecting" that group of people, I am actually affecting one individual that I grant the ability to...

I think this might be an oversight in the RAW because it is not explained anywhere that you should not be able (per some defect of the Hermetic magic) to grant these "remote non-magical senses" to another person.

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It gets worse....
As far as I can tell, all example Intellego spells give the caster information. Not a single one of them (that I have found) gives some other person information instead.

For magical senses (ArM5 p113-114) it is explicit that they can be given to some other person, and the example spells that use those guidelines should be easy to modify to give some other person the sense, but the example spells all let the caster sense things.

Edit: The Intellego Imaginem guidelines (ArM5 p145) say "These spells improve upon your senses by bringing in images (usually sounds and sights) not normally available." (my emphasis)
So perhaps InIm can't be used to give a sense to another?


I would prefer to think that is an oversight of the rules as written than an intended limitation of Hermetic magic as some people I have asked seems to think... because for them rules has written is sacred scripture.

And then again, magical senses have their own set of particular rules where the target is based on the sense being affected to receive the magical species...

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I have to admit, I like them this way. It makes sense to me.
And if I want to give someone else enhanced senses, Vim magic should be able to help with that.

That's a bit of a strong statement.

I don't mean anyone here. I didn't mean to offend.

It is just... What is more likely? Oversight or intended?

There is no explanation anywhere (as far as I have read) that Hermetic magic has a limitation to grant normal senses at range to another person besides the caster BUT it can grant magical senses to another person besides the caster.

Also, not being able to "grant" the at-distance normal sense to another has the side-effect of not being able to create an enchanted item that grants it as it needs range touch to affect the wearer

More than something specific of InIm, that seems to be about how Intellego works in general:

It's good to stick to them to a certain point (if only because you closer you stay, the less chances you get to have confusion in play due to different opinions), but if you want to get rid of that people you can quote them page 6 of the corebook, the last sentence of the Basic Ideas section: "Ars Magica is a game. If you have fun with it, you are doing it right". Or the implicit consequence: when in doubt the right option is the fun one.

So if you feel that InIm (or Intellego in general) don't need to be limited to the information flowing to the caster, just HR that In spells have two ranges, and just happens that all the Intellego spells have the receiver range at Personal.

I personally wouldn't even think in turning down any player trying to make an enchantment bringing magical senses to its wearer / bearer (nor even would require even an extra magnitude to affect the wearer for that matter). It is hateful when you see a player thinking "ok, this seems it could be fun if only I could do something funny" and that's not something I want to see at the table.

You can use effects that allow you to "pass control" of a spell to someone else so that they're subsequently treated as the caster for transferring Intellego effects. The easy way to do it is to have the Mutantes Virtue "Tethered Magic" (pg 107 of HoH:TL) or the Mutantes spell mastery "Tethered Casting" (pg 100).

If you're not a Mutantes and can't persuade one to teach you their spell mastery, there's also a MuVi "Passing the Reins of [Form]" spell (pg 98 of Hermetic Projects), but that uses the "Significantly change a spell of level less than or equal to the level + 1 magnitude" guideline, so you need a decent Muto Vim and to know or be able to spont a different spell for each Form.

I thoguht MuMe guidelines talked about granting senses to others?


@Salutor That is good to know, both the virtue and the Vim meta magic.

But again, those are workarounds for something that should be there in the first place.

@jason72 indeed Muto Mentem guidelines talk about granting "magical senses" to others, but that is not exactly it. Intellego Imaginem makes a distinction (both effect-wise and mechanical-wise) between "magical senses" and "using normal senses at a distance". I am asking about the later.

It is a little bit more complex.

Giving the control about a spell, esp. its target to a grog standing besides you is not standard Hermetic magic.

Yes: a maga can grant to her shield grog a R: Touch version of ArM5 p.145 Eyes of the Eagle, allowing that grog to see verrry distant things clearly until the sun goes down.

But the maga controls, what she perceives with InIm, e. g. by targeting her p.144 Prying Eyes or p.145 Ear for Distant Voices. That control she usually cannot transfer to her grog just by willing so.

She may use another spell, e. g. CrIm or ReIm, to show the images or sounds she perceives in the room to the grog. She might also provide the grog with an enchanted device like a lens to see through a wall.

Or she might use not quite Hermetic HoH:TL p.97 Tethered Casting to give her spell's control to the grog.

Does that explanation help?