Is an image an Arcane Connection

Hiya all,
I was wondering what the collective wisdom would make of this...
If you can see a place clearly - either through magical or mundane means - could you teleport there with a Leap of Homecoming?
When I say "see the place", I mean to see it as if you were stood there yourself.
I think that a modified LoHC, specifically made to work with images might do the trick, or could a regular one do?

There is a specific Mystery that allows this. In Ancient Magic look at Defixio Magic, which allows you to target things you can name or describe, by creating sympathetic Connections. i[/i] Since it is an Ancient Magic mystery, I would say NO.
But with this mystery, you can pretty literally cast a spell on, "that guy who stole my boot" or "the place with the neat waterwheel and hills" as long as you can draw it well.[/i]

If you can see, hear, smell, touch or sens eit in any other way you can affect it witha proper spell.

But if your spell is on Sight range you cant affect the target if you are in a dark room and just hear it.

But the teleport spells are always on what you can see or/and to what you have an arcane connection.

So if you summon the image of a distant place you can teleport to it AND affect it with Sight spells.

If you can only hear it I guess a Voice range spell would be good but in this case you have to transport your voice magically to that point in order to affect anything!

I you can see the place directly, either by magic or by mundane means, I agree that you can use Leap of the Homecoming to that place.

Same thing happens if one of my players wants to use Leap of the Homecoming to teleport the other side of a river, i would not ask him to have a arcane connection to the other side.

Species degaged by someone are not a Arcane Connection to something or someone (for the calculation of penetration) but it's enough to affect it.

Hope this help !

In terms of teleporting things or beings this has been talked over before - that it is somewhat of an exception that the 'range' of teleportation is described by the Guidelines and not the Range.

If it had been otherwise, I'd never allow (unless with the Flexible virtue) to use a different Range then the one encoded in the spell - eg. going from R:AC to R:Sight - but since this is in the Guidelines for the Base Level this is somewhat different. I would sum it up to allowing it if it is embedded in the original spell design - which it at least without doubt is for Seven-League Stride - or if it seems very appropriate.

So in short I'd allow it, but in very generel terms I'd otherwise be very cautious of allowing too wide a change of the base level description of spells, though not applicable here.

This actually leads nicely onto a query i had. Could you use Leap of the homecoming to teleport to somewhere you can see with your naked eye?

The description of the spell is teleport to a location you have an arcane conection to. Does this mean that if you wanted to teleport across your own lab, you would need an arcane connection to the other side of the lab?

On a similar note, the ranges for spells, can they be reduced? for instance, could one cast an arcane connection range BOAF at sigfht range if you wanted or would you need to have a sight range version?

I suspect for the latter query the range is as stated but the former one (teleporting) seems a different.

The responses here are along the lines of my own opinion - you would need to spend some time creating a sight range LoHC. If you try to use an AC range one you could get some "interesting" results (SG rolls a die to see if you arrive safely, or up a tree etc.)

For most magi, it would take a season, maybe two to research this spell. It would be even easier if they knew the original version of the spell.

bla

You should look at the ArM5 sympathetic connection rules. An image is a sympathetic connection and grants a bonus to Penetration, but is not an Arcane Connection. By "image," I take it you mean a physical representation of some person, place, or thing and not actually viewing the target in question.

The Defixio Magic in Ancient Magic, mentioned above, allows magi to get around the need for Arcane Connections by substituting sympathetic ones. This is not allowed by vanilla Hermetic magic.

Edit: In case my post was unclear, just looking at something does not give you an Arcane Connection to it either. Arcane Connections are almost always physical objects that are/were part of the target or have a strong connection to that target.

You would need a different spell. Unless you are fortunate to have the Flexible Formulaic Magic virtue.

But the tricky part is that with the teleports were are actually talking about adjusting the effect and not the Range of a spell. The problem us that a majority of the teleportation levels in the guidelines use the wording 'up to' - with the one exception of the highest which simply just requires an AC. So if discussing whether to allow teleporting by sight and not AC, I think the discussion doesnt neccesarily need to focus on whether an image is an AC or not (which I agree that it isnt), but whether the 'up to' also might be fair to use on spells using the AC base level.

Personally I think it is fair, more so as it is even mentioned in the Seven-League Stride.

To answer the question, a drawing is sympathetic, not an arcane connection. However if you left a picture in a room for long enough it could be. Good way of keeping track of all your teleport routes perhaps.

So here’s a thought on the teleport subject, if I open The Intangible Tunnel, lets say the target is 10 miles away, and the target is now at touch range and I can see in the room, does that mean I can use a teleport spell with less of a range, say 5 paces, or do I still need to span the whole distance in the design of the spell?

Not that I disagree, but it was my impression that the question was not whether a physical image, such as a drawing or painting, was an AC, but whether image in the sense of seeing there was an AC.

Most teleport spells include that, teleporting up to, in their description which including the base level guidelines - with AC being the sole exeption

Yes, my (inaccurately phrased) original question was asking if you could use an image instead of an AC for a leap of Homecoming spell.

I was asking if an image could be classed as an AC, or whether the spell could be altered to use an image instead of an AC.

I can't find the response from David Chart ,
but a while back i asked if species could be used as an arcane connection to an object.
The answer was no.
Species constantly renew , they are not static ,
so i don't think you can fix them (in the lab) as an arcane connection either.

If asked if an image (generated by species or Im magic) could be used for Leap of Homecoming , i would say no.
Im spells affect the senses , they are not the thing they represent.

Someone said minor breakthrough to take "pictures" of places and use them as AC? :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Xavi

Why take pictures.
You can just imprint the memory of a place on a suitable medium.
Mentem magics to refresh the memory first , then simply copy as needed.
(this presupposes that the person or creature has physically been to the place at some point)