Do that often enough, and the troupe might help you find all kind of defects in those winged dogs: outrageous appetites, vulnerabilities to moderate winds, sprained wings after stressful flights. Or they might not.
Just standard Hermetic Engineering.
Some of the later books suggest rather strange things possible through momentary Creo rituals. Granted many groups do not like it, but HP talks about a momentary Creo ritual created wall which can heal itself as if it was alive (with Muto and Form the healing matches requisites).
While I would tend to say that something like this is possible, I would also be on the side of it requiring some sort of research or breakthrough. The extend required would be up to the individual group based upon the type of game they wish to play. For some it would require some type of Original Research. Others would require an in depth study of the process of natural healing within the entity it is copied from. Others will hand wave this and just allow it to be done with the requisites and possible extra Mags of Complexity.
EDIT: It is TME page 58, not HP. I "remembered" its location wrong.
I think at minimum there needs to be an official standard rule, with other possibilities existing y mysteries, initiations, virtues or house rules, so it doesn't suddenly get discovered mid game that different people mad different assumptions and perhaps built characters around that.
Remember, known to the magus (familiarity) is a pretty loose thing. It does not require having ever seen the thing, merely having heard or read about it or seen a artist’s rendition of it and having a good imagination (free expression).
so a painting of a castle in the sky...
I mean I think one should be able to create things one can imagine, that seems to work for me. I do feel in a particular saga some adjudication as to what is possible within that should, of course, be the rule. For instance Pumice is a rock that can float in water, of course because the stone has little less of the Earth atoms and more of the Air to make it rest on top of water rather than seek the same level. by extension couldn’t one create a rock that naturally rests at a higher level? Granted, over time, Pumice will cease to float.
While we in modern times know that Pumice will eventually cease to float, that does not make it true in ME. It is perfectly possible that they believe it will always float and so it will always float.
The same can be said for an unnatural stone which naturally rests at a higher level. It is possible that it will eventually sink, though it is also possible that it will always maintain resting at a higher level.
would you mind quoting the exact page so I can go look it up?
Oops, my bad. It is TME, not HP. It is TME page 58, in the "Unnatural Stones" section on the right side of the page.
The error was mine, since I posted off of what I "remembered" rather than actually looking it up first.
Makes me wonder why they would keep momentary muto rituals off limit but allow a momentary creo ritual with a muto requisite. I can't say I'm fully comfortable with the idea in an average campaign, but if the book suggests a momentary creo ritual for a self-healing wall or a perpetually burning wall, frankly, I don't see why the same logic would prevent a floating tower. I wish it was a little bit more effort than that to have a flying castle.
You are not alone in not being fully comfortable with allowing Muto requisites in a momentary Creo Ritual. My group requires a breakthrough if we determine it would require a Muto requisite rather than just the Unnatural modifier.
Specifically we require a Minor Breakthrough for a single specific application. One I did in game was Cr(Mu)He(Me) to awaken a 'living plant' through a Momentary Ritual. Something like the variations for the wall we would most likely say are outside the bounds of just adding an Unnatural modifier and require a Muto Requisite, so would require a Breakthrough.
We would most likely apply the same to a flying castle. Muto and Auram Requisites, so Minor Breakthrough required for that spell.
If you check that paragraph again, you'll see it never says those work via Momentary Creo Rituals. Rituals, sure, but maybe with non-Momentary Durations.
The whole section of "Wall Materials Other Than Stone" in which it is part of cover possible modifications for the Creo Ritual to create the wall. At not point do they make even a hint that it might require changing from a Momentary to other duration.
And you, yes you, brought this up before when we were looking at errata. David Chart responded with
the text in TME does not explicitly say that the rituals are D: Mom, so this is not an error. It might be a little unclear, but that's not what errata are for — at least not in minor features of supplements.
In other words, had it explicitly said these could be done as Momentary Rituals, it would have needed an erratum. But as it didn't explicitly state that these are Momentary, there isn't actually an error to correct.
Of course, that won't stop people from making that assumption by mistake. But if we can stop doing it here, that will help other people.
If I have encountered a winged dog, I can creo it, ok.
If I have read a description by someone has encountered it, it is ok.
If I imagine it, however, I cannot creo it, however much I have imagined and familiiarised myself with it.
However, if somebody else imagine it, and then describe it to me, I would be just as familiar with it, in the same way, as if the author really had encountered it, so I should be able to creo it.
Then why can't I creo it if if I imagine it myself?
Strictly speaking, going by page 77, it just depends on whether a form exists, in the world of ideal forms. It is not obvious that a flying castle is an existant form, is it? Does not this just mean that it simply depends on the game world of forms, as designed by the SG?
Or possibly, a flying tower is not an ideal form, but a flawed one. The light-weight stone also happens to be fragile, and falls apart at the slightest gust of wind.
My problem here isn't with the naturalness of a property, but rather with what we're defining as a property in the first place. Something's location isn't a property of the object itself - you can transport something with Rego, but you can't alter location as a property with Muto, or lock something in place by Creoing its location property, or make something unable to occupy a particular space by Perdoing its location property. You could make a tower buoyant enough to float at roughly a particular altitude, and it wouldn't lose durability or anything, but it would get weighed down if you put anything in it and would get blown around by the air if nothing else was done.
The property of an objects natural level is the medieval equivalent of buoyancy- things did not sink or float based on relative density but because it is seeking its own level.