Is Vis Use Visible?

So we ended up having an impromptu certamen duel in the last session over an insult one magus felt had received.

During the certamen the question came up:

"Can you tell if a magus is using vis during the duel, and if so, how?"

I didn't have true lineages on hand, and didn't see anything about it in a quick scan of the ArM5 text regarding certamen, so I curious if I missing something, or if this is something handled on a per troupe basis...

What do you think?

Side question: What sort of CrMe follow-up spell would your magus cast on the loser after he refused to apologize for making sexual remarks about your magus' apprentice? (You do need to stay in the TeFo combination for the follow up spell, yes?) Arts are Cr9Me5, +3Int, +3Aura.



I would think vis use wouldbe visible at all times but especially in a duel as the mage stops to pull something out of his pocket and begins performing some kind of ritual. I have been known to be wrong, though. :wink:

Second question- A creo mentem spell? How about "Panic of the Trembling Heart"? Or create a momentary memory in his mind to make him think he "heard something over there" (Cr Me base 5 +1 t:ind =lvl 10) and then when he looks "over there", sock him in the jaw.

The vis is held in amulets the magus wears around his I don't think there's a lot of fishing around for items.

The duel resulted in my magus' opponent being knocked unconscious, so punching him in the face isn't all that difficult at the moment, but it's also not quite his style. :slight_smile: Trust me, I considered it... I also considered and discarded the idea of drawing on his face with some sort of medieval marker equivalent. :slight_smile:


A "Magic marker"?

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
So you need a number of pawns equal to either your technique or your form. He has 9 or 5 pawns of vis hanging around his neck?
Just don't botch.
If the guy's unconscious, why does it matter if someone can see your mage use the vis?

idelly you'd like a spell that would last until your former opponent awakes, this will probably be sun, You're probably also dealing with range voice.

In a perfect world you'd

creo mentem an overwhelming urge to appologize to your apprentice
creo mentem a sense of intense shame for duration moon
creo mentem a comand to surpress his parma

but looking at your numbers (you use stam not int in 4th ed) even with a point of confidence you'll be lucky to pull off level 15.

Perhaps a duration momentary feeling of self loathing so powerful that it wakes him from unconciousness?

How about a "touch" range effect instead of voice?

Assuming a roll of 5 you magus should be able to get a spont of 22 - 25 depending on his stamina. Does he not have a nice formulaic spell he could use?

He could do a version of Panic of the Trembling heart at touch range, make him cower in fear of you all day.

Good ideas on the spells, thanks!

What about the other question?

Does vis use have a visible component, or is it all a force of will?


I find nothing to prove that it does but it would be kinda cool if it did. I love visual effects. It coud be different for every mage. Sounds like something that is up to your SG. Roll for it.

I always envisioned a magical surge when vis is used...

So a PoF would expand, then shoot out...
Perhaps a brief surge in the Sigil...

You CAN put Vis in lots of different things....

One of our magi did this...I think it was green hair...
Lasted a month...through Tribunal. He brought her up on charges...and lost.