Issues with RoP:Magic

[Ejidoth]

I love the book, and the concepts outlined in it. I've run into a few glitches, math errors, and oddities, that I plan to houserule, however.

First:
Preternatural tethers don't seem to work properly. You take the highest, then add one for every tether that's at least half as strong. So... imagine this situation:
A level 2 preternatural tether, and three level 1s. That would be Aura 5, then.
Now, raise that level 2 to level 3. Suddenly, the three level 1s no longer count. So... by making something more magical, you actually cause the aura to DROP 2 levels.
That doesn't seem right.

Second:
Magic Might seems too disadvantageous - or rather, it seems too big an advantage to stay at low or zero Might, especially for a Magus with 'Transformed (Being)'. At zero Might, you can live indefinitely, ignore warping, get extra seasons out of not having to sleep, and pick up some qualities for fun. In return, you have to eat one pawn of vis a year, or live in an aura. You get a -0 non-penalty to experience gain. And it's far, FAR cheaper to gain Transformation experience points from vis than it would be if you gained Might.

Also! I caught the jokes in the 'nailing chamberpots' thing with the Vim magical humans, and the 'empedocles was sometimes right' thing about Criamon and Twilight. Were there any other little in-jokes and easter eggs that I missed?

EDIT:

A couple other things. Several powers, qualities, or virtues are listed that don't seem to exist. For example, Atlanteans have something called 'Surface Form' (which appears to change them from fish to merfolk when they're above water?) and several beings have things like 'Master of Form', 'Ruler of Form', etc. I assume those latter are Focus Powers, by analogy with 'Crafter of Form' which is defined, but it doesn't say.

[Agnar]

Second:
Magic Might seems too disadvantageous - or rather, it seems too big an advantage to stay at low or zero Might, especially for a Magus with 'Transformed (Being)'. At zero Might, you can live indefinitely, ignore warping, get extra seasons out of not having to sleep, and pick up some qualities for fun. In return, you have to eat one pawn of vis a year, or live in an aura. You get a -0 non-penalty to experience gain. And it's far, FAR cheaper to gain Transformation experience points from vis than it would be if you gained Might

I didn't care for the fact that if you have a magic might you cant increase your abilities...but then i saw the minor quality that gives 50 exp, over all a pretty easy was to improve.

I'm not sure that the mass of the larger giants is reasonable but i haven't spent much time on it.

[The_Fixer]

In general, for a given for, mass increase is (size increase)^3.

So, if a 1m70 human is said to wait 70kg, a 1m70 flesh giant should weight aroung 70 000kg

[BoXer]

a 1m70 flesh giant

That would be a verrry small giant indeed! lol.

[Erik_Dahl]

Preternatural tethers don't seem to work properly. You take the highest, then add one for every tether that's at least half as strong. So... imagine this situation:
A level 2 preternatural tether, and three level 1s. That would be Aura 5, then.
Now, raise that level 2 to level 3. Suddenly, the three level 1s no longer count. So... by making something more magical, you actually cause the aura to DROP 2 levels.
That doesn't seem right.

I'd probably just ignore this for a few years to give the other tethers time to catch up, as they are likely to increase as well or else begin to fade. It doesn't really matter because you couldn't increase the aura anyway, because 5 is the highest it can go from preternatural tethers.

Magic Might seems too disadvantageous - or rather, it seems too big an advantage to stay at low or zero Might, especially for a Magus with 'Transformed (Being)'. At zero Might, you can live indefinitely, ignore warping, get extra seasons out of not having to sleep, and pick up some qualities for fun. In return, you have to eat one pawn of vis a year, or live in an aura. You get a -0 non-penalty to experience gain. And it's far, FAR cheaper to gain Transformation experience points from vis than it would be if you gained Might.

Why would a magical magus want to remain so weak and vulnerable? The first magical version of Demon's Eternal Oblivion that hits him will remove all of his Magic Qualities forever, and this could have other effects such as killing him or sending him into Final Twilight. While he can depend upon the Parma Magica for resistance, he has almost no penetration for any of his powers, since as a magical creature his Penetration Total is based on his Might. And, Hermetic precedent suggests that a magical creature is no longer a member of the Order of Hermes, like ghosts. He forgoes the protection of the Code, and can be destroyed by any other magus that thinks he can take him.

These advantages you mention aren't quite as great as you suggest them to be. He doesn't have to eat or drink, but he is still vulnerable to injuries and can be killed by violence. To get extra seasons out of not having to sleep, he needs the No Fatigue Major Magic Quality, which also makes it nearly impossible to fatigue himself for magical gain. And if he's consuming vis to get his Magic Qualities or to prevent Acclimation, he needs to make a roll on the Vis Consumption chart every year. This could be good for him, yes, but it could be bad as well.

So just taking the Transformed by Magic Virtue for a Might Score of 0 has some nice advantages, but over time there are some pretty hefty disadvantages too.

Also! I caught the jokes in the 'nailing chamberpots' thing with the Vim magical humans, and the 'empedocles was sometimes right' thing about Criamon and Twilight. Were there any other little in-jokes and easter eggs that I missed?

I'm pretty certain there are, but telling you would spoil the fun.

A couple other things. Several powers, qualities, or virtues are listed that don't seem to exist. For example, Atlanteans have something called 'Surface Form' (which appears to change them from fish to merfolk when they're above water?) and several beings have things like 'Master of Form', 'Ruler of Form', etc. I assume those latter are Focus Powers, by analogy with 'Crafter of Form' which is defined, but it doesn't say.

Hmm, these all look like powers to me. I'm not sure about their exact construction, but you could probably extrapolate them from context. I'd imagine the author will post exactly what he had in mind at some point.

[Ejidoth]

I'd probably just ignore this for a few years to give the other tethers time to catch up, as they are likely to increase as well or else begin to fade. It doesn't really matter because you couldn't increase the aura anyway, because 5 is the highest it can go from preternatural tethers.

Yeah, it doesn't make a huge difference... but it still means the rule's kind of out of whack. In most cases it'll work, I'm just looking for a house rule to make it more consistent. So far I'm thinking just (highest preternatural tether), +1 if there's one or more tethers at least half as strong.

Why would a magical magus want to remain so weak and vulnerable? The first magical version of Demon's Eternal Oblivion that hits him will remove all of his Magic Qualities forever, and this could have other effects such as killing him or sending him into Final Twilight. While he can depend upon the Parma Magica for resistance, he has almost no penetration for any of his powers, since as a magical creature his Penetration Total is based on his Might. And, Hermetic precedent suggests that a magical creature is no longer a member of the Order of Hermes, like ghosts. He forgoes the protection of the Code, and can be destroyed by any other magus that thinks he can take him.

These advantages you mention aren't quite as great as you suggest them to be. He doesn't have to eat or drink, but he is still vulnerable to injuries and can be killed by violence. To get extra seasons out of not having to sleep, he needs the No Fatigue Major Magic Quality, which also makes it nearly impossible to fatigue himself for magical gain. And if he's consuming vis to get his Magic Qualities or to prevent Acclimation, he needs to make a roll on the Vis Consumption chart every year. This could be good for him, yes, but it could be bad as well.

So just taking the Transformed by Magic Virtue for a Might Score of 0 has some nice advantages, but some pretty hefty disadvantages too.

Once again, I know there are ways to make it work in-setting, and I'm not against SG fiat in general. But I'm looking for house-rules to make it less of a problem.

I dislike the idea of a magus being able to gain immortality without something to at least slow down his advancement. And in fact, having a low Might not only makes you immortal and immune to warping, it actually speeds up your advancement, since the Improved Abilities quality costs 10 XP, to give you 50 XP, and can even improve Arts, which are normally very difficult to improve quickly after a certain point.

Also, are you saying that all consumption of vis counts for the vis consumption to prevent acclimation thing? Because... you have to consume at least enough vis to trigger that table just to get full XP in a single season, with the Might penalty, no matter what your Might is. Nothing seems to suggest that was intended. Although I could be wrong.
I don't actually have a problem with that one, if it is the case, I just don't think it is.

EDIT:

Also, it explicitly says on page 29 that Magic characters don't need to eat, drink, or sleep. They just don't recover, if they avoid those things. I suppose you could argue that lab work is slightly fatiguing and fatigue levels would build up, though, if you tried to take advantage of that without No Fatigue.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

and several beings have things like 'Master of Form', 'Ruler of Form', etc. I assume those latter are Focus Powers, by analogy with 'Crafter of Form' which is defined, but it doesn't say.

Master of form is on page 39