Item botch and warping

I assume that using items can be botched in stressful situations. But does this lead to warping? If yes, does it warp the magus or the item?

IMO, warping the magus is important because warping defines a magus life and power.

Or is this just one more reason why Verditius magi are so wonderful?

Can an item botch? If my character triggers his Wand of Daisy Growing, I don't roll a stress die. The item works as designed. I think that is one of the beauties of enchanted items.

Matt Ryan

I've seen this in other threads. Magic items do not have a roll, nor are they affected by "hostile" auras. Think of it this way. Magic items are spells you spent a season and vis casting ahead of time, and stored until needed. If you cast a ward against Demons in you lab, duration moon, and then went to an infernal aura, you don't need to re-roll that spell under the new conditions to see if you botch. Why would your magic item be inferior?

As to the wonderfulness of Verditius Magi, I like them a lot too, but it depends on the pacing of the game. Needing two to three seasons to react to a new threat can be crippling in some games. One big reason the House of Masters is the most social of houses......

Learning a formulaic spell by invention takes about as long as it takes a Verditius to create a minor enchanted item - so there is no advantage in spells over items. I've always found vis to be unimportant: by creating a useful item that uses the strongestTeFo combination of the caster (plus focus and so on), and trading it away a magus can easily earn enough vis even if the saga is set in a vis poor environment (Using a lab text to do so repeatedly even increases vis-income).

Learning a spell from a lab text and using a lab text for enchantment are similar, too.

One big disadvantage of items is that it is easier to steal them. Another one is that their penetration doesn't grow after their creation (spells benefit from Art growth).
Another one is that there is no item mastery skill.

There is the 1 for 2 penetration rule for enchantment.
There is no aura modifier and creation usually happens in a very helpful environment (Aura + lab boni).
Activating items can be quiet/subtle.
Items can concentrate.
They can simulate independent intelligence (by using special triggers).
They can be given to grogs (including my favorite item that makes a grog take a magus' fatigue).
Everyone here seems to think they don't cause warping.

So do Verditius magi live longer lives than other magi?

I house rule the penetration of an aura to items. Seeing as they roll no dice it sees the only way they can be reflected without creating a new rules subset. It also has a handy effect on the mega-penetration options available to cheapass charged items of awesomeness. Unless, of course, you go to a magic aura where I apply no modifer on the basis that was what it was created for.

I know this seems harsh but you only have to see one item created pushing the penetration rules to start looking for ways to gimp it.

Other problems include:
One cannot use vis to boost penetration of items.
One cannot use MuVi spells on powers from lesser enchanted devices.

And, in many sagas, vis is an issue, both in terms of quantity and of type.

I'm not sure what you mean by "here", but I'd say they certainly do. Remember that warpin is caused by "mystical effects", not only spells. I think there are a number of canonical examples in the books as well.

I thought the original poster was referring to botching and the accumulation of warping points, to which I'd reply, "No, item's can't botch or cause warping to the user for the botch." An item that casts a powerful effect on a target will cause warping to the target if the effect is powerful enough (level 30 or 40) or the effect is constant.

Matt Ryan

That was indeed what i was trying to say in the first place.

I have heard it talked about, ut I have never actually seem it happen. I would like some one do do it though, so that they can face up to some of the difficult challenges that lay ahead. My style is, instead of looking for ways to "gimp" player characters, I am waiting for them to get crazy with power so I can turn up the threat level a few notches. Oddly enough, the heavy hand of rules rarely ever falls upon me as SG. It is my players that gimp themselves and each other, and design thing weak on purpose just because they think it is thematically appropriate. It is going to get them thematically dead though :smiling_imp:
Unless they are clever :wink:

+++++start highjacking my own thread:+++++

Well, Marko, yours is the only saga I've ever played that made me create a spare character in case my current one bites the dust. IF she dies, the next character is going to be a nightmare able to create and control 100 non-magical opponents in just two rounds. All of those opponents are mediocre, but with 100 of them someone has got to roll the multiple magical 1 (lessons from the zergling rush...)

Yours is the worst power gaming ever - but, despite myself, I am enjoying myself thoroughly.

++++end of highjacking my own thread+++++

I agree that generally there is no roll for a magic item, so there is no chance of a botch. On the other hand, some items require a Finesse Aiming roll --- which is possible to botch. In which case I'd think about the item user getting warping from the botch (or maybe the anvil just lands on his friends).

However, I'm not sure why you think that items are not affected by auras?

I think that the RAW is that the non-rolled Penetration of a magic item is affected by the aura just like the non-rolled Penetration of a creature power is. So, if a Hermetic item is used in a level 3 Infernal aura there should be a -3 penalty applied to the Penetration of the item. If the item doesn't require Penetration to have its effect (for example, if the target doesn't have Magic Resistance) then this is a moot point, but if the target does have Magic Resistance (which will also be modified by the aura) then there may be a net penalty / bonus to the effective Penetration of the item caused by the aura.