Lances are rubbish?

We should really classify swords based on usage.

You need a sword that is used for formation fighting, generally shorter and used for stabbing.

Then you have a 1-handed sword used for open combat styles.

Then you add your 2-handed sword used for your brute force beat-em down style of combat.

Irrespective of name you can fit almost all swords in one of those 3 categories.

Since this thread started I've actually had a look at the weapon table and I've decided it's garbage. Makes me glad that my chronicle has grogs (and combat in general) relegated to descriptive only.

I think that's basically what the combat chart provides for in the short, long, and great swords. Although in the game combat styles/usage has been generalized out of existence for the most part. The longsword is better all around but the difference is a small enough that stats, skill, and luck are going to matter far more then what sword your using.

The chart is a little odd and their are a few stats that I disagree with but I'm not sure it's totally wrong. As a simplification designed to give players some choices (based on most peoples perceptions) without bogging down the game I think it works. As a serious simulation of melee weapons and medieval combat it's lacking, but I've never found any RPG that gets it right IMOHO.

Furthermore I've hung out with various "serious" reenactors and martial artists as well as dabbling in such things my self. In my experience I've never found any two groups that agree very much with each other on the sort of fine details represented in the chart. There is a lot of bias based on training styles, engagement rules, available information, personal preference, and the general alpha maleness inherent in such hobbies. Of course I also just binge watched the first two seasons of Deadliest Warrior.

Edit: Based on the original question I think allowing the use of the horses strength as well as a few bonuses for charging attacks would make lances more "realistic" without really bogging down the game.

Given the system, luck will beat down all the other considerations most of the time unless you overspecialize.

Cheers,
Xavi

Yup.

Maybe add Riding skill to damage? :wink:

I found Savage World system is useful. They don't give bonuses for attack and defense but use an armor piercing stat. I think is is a better way.

Yes and No.

Of Luck, Equipment, Stats, and Skill, luck is the most important, but I think though that if you have a good advantage in two of the other three that would equal out to generally better rolls. If a combatant is better armed in better shape and better equipped his opponent would need much better luck to win. That being said crits and botches end fights. So even if you are an experienced knight, in peak condition and fully equipped with plate armor a sickly peasant with pitchfork might still punch your ticket if he gets lucky.

To me that is a design feature rather then a flaw.

Messers a german long knives. Tallhoffer is a 14th Century source of fighting and it has messer fighting as things which are long sharp spikes.

A

My solution on the matter is a simple one: use the Str bonus for the mount instead of the rider when using a lance from horseback. :slight_smile:

-Eirik

If it works for a knight on horseback , should work for a centaur also. :slight_smile:

Actually being able to Joust I've stayed out of this comment for now because my jousting style is not in fitting with this time period. However I hope this provides a little insight from the front......

A lance can be used in numerous ways. Whilst it's true that one foot a lance is a lot more difficult to use one handed (Not impossible, just woefully impractical). Using a Lance on horseback requires a lot of the same sort of training as using it off. For example knowing how long the weapon is. This may seem obvious but there is a great deal about placement, balance and overall interaction between all factors which means that using a shorter sword on or off horseback is very similar (excluding the large and demanding needs of horsemanship) but is very different to a lance on or off horse which (again horse aside) are very similar.

Using a large, cumbersome heavy weapon is very different to a shorter more manouverable weapon be it one or two handed. I would personally have skills for Bludgeon, Slash & Stab rather then weapon types and then have weapons have different active catagories and stat modifiers for each damage type. A LOT more complex I know, but more accurate. As a concession to simplcity I like Ars' system.

I liked the Idea of using a horses strength as a modifier to the damage, but would suggest that the impact comes more form it's speed with all of the jousters strength being used to brace the blow. I would suggest adding a horses quickness (if positive I don't remember) to the damage and then say have a ride roll made to gauge the maximum safe speed the rider can go at with 6 being + 1 and then each additional 3 being another + 1 to damage, A botch meaning the rider completely misjudges and launches himself from the horse after successfully bracing the blow of hitting a firmly imovable object (Trust me, neither fun nor pleasant).

A

I really like this as a house rule. It makes riding skill a meaningful part of the equation. The botch result does strike me as something that would probably tickle my schadenfreude if I saw it happen... to my shame.