Large amounts of Mooks and initiative

Well even 6-8 can be quite large even when there's only 3 PC's...

How do you handle Mooks, especially large numbers of Mooks - do you group them together adding +! AV per member attacking or do you roll initiative individually for all of them?

For example - I might run the following this way:

4 PC's with 3 mooks for each player = 12 mooks in total.

3 mooks go for player 1
2 mooks go for player 2
4 mooks go for player 3
1 mook goes for player 4 (he's one brave mook)
2 mooks stay back for this sequence - keeps mook book keeping down for one

I roll initiative for each mook against player 2 and 4

for players 1 and 3 however I roll just one initiative and add +2 AV to a group attack and +3 for a group attack respectively.

[As there's quite a few mooks I use a miniature for each of my PC's character (as they're not experience rpg players) on a large sheet of paper. This is roughly for keeping track of mooks, pc's and position. I'd encourage props such as a coin under a pc miniature to represent pc on a higher level. Not that this is overly important. I'd use (something I found on the web) M&M's or other hard candy/sweets to represents the mooks. PC's to eat the sweets as they take out the Mooks.]

Of course, next sequence doesn't have to run like the first (if there's any Mooks standing).

I wrote a small utility for tracking initiative a while ago, when I use that it rolls mook initiative individually. Otherwise, I generally separate the mooks out into groups based on their stats and use a single initiative roll for each group.

Mooks combining their attacks actually uses a schtick from Glimpse of the Abyss- I generally only use it if there is good reason for them to be acting in concert. In particular, it's a good way of making a barricade defended by mooks any kind of barrier to a Feng Shui PC, who would otherwise dance right up to them dodging all the attacks.

is it this one? ... on=ReStart

Nah, although it's similar. Mine is a java app, and handles Me First, Fast Draw, actions other than 1- and 3-shot actions, tracks shot penalties for the next round caused by taking extra-long actions and has a notes field for each fighter so you can keep track of which mook is attacking who.

Someone gave me a hand with it a while ago, but for some reason the only version I have now is the unimproved version. I might work on it a little then add it to my website at some point.

Well I'd look forward to that, be sure to post a link to it on the forum mate if you do get it up and running again.

I really prefer Queex's Horde solution from his site, treating a Horde of mooks as one entity, AV of whatever the normal average AV of that type of mook is (5 for example), plus the Horde's rating (if Rating/Threat 8 for example, a 5 AV Mook Horde would actually be AV 13 at full strength) and it attacks every player (if in reach) on the GM's turn.

My problem here is he says that for every 2 Mooks taken out, the Rating drops by 1, but that this is not cumulative, so I'm not sure how this doesn't come out to be "2 Mooks = +1 Threat", so a Horde with a rating of 8 actually has 16 people in it, for reducing the rating tracking, though not necessarily for relaying how many enemies there are to the players.

I also like and independently came up with the "outcome multiples" idea, that if the PC's outcome is over 5, for every 2 or 3 past 5, another mook is taken out, so an attack roll of 14, which exceeds the mook target#/AV of 5 by 9, could take out 4 (if going by 2's) or 3 additional mooks. You could just as easily do it with 4's or 5's, which would dramatically cut down on PC's taking out multiple mooks in one shot - it's a tossup, because I've had players roll so well they came up with 26's, which even going by 5's would still take out 5 total, though I tend to make it sometimes just incapacitate or stun mooks for a time, but allow them back in the fight at a later time.

I think it can depend on what you want your Mooks to do.

For example, if you have 10 Mooks going into hand to hand with one character it might well be best to roll for them as one entity - after all the sheer amount of attacks that you're getting against you more than makes this a reasonable house rule. I really like Queex's rules on this.

I found that 7 Mooks on zip lines decending from a Mall ceiling did very well as individual group attacks against one player - i.e 1 group of 3 and 1 group of 4 representing 1 synchronized drop of 3 and one of 4.

On the other hand I've found that 3/4 Mooks against each player all on different initiative allows them to react better to what the PC is doing at any given moment. Of course, trying to wok out what 16-20 mooks on different initiatives are doing means that I would probably use a variety of methods of controlling the Mooks - some would have their own initiatives and some would have to (for my brain to cope with it) be controlled as groups.

I divide mooks into groups of at most four people. If there's one group with for example 3 mooks, I only roll once but with a +3 bonus. Named characters can use mooks in this way to add to their AV. On the shot track board, I use dice to visualize how many groups of mooks there are and how many mooks in each group.

Mook groups only acts out on shot 10 and 5 and they always acts out before any named character (PC) if they are on the same shot. Hey, they should have at least one advantage... :slight_smile:

I've never thought of that, and yet it seems so obvious now :slight_smile:

Also, the players use colored glass stones on the shot cost keeper, so I tend to match the color of the die with the color of the players marker. I never have to ask which player that was fighting "the group with four mooks". :slight_smile: