Learning with Magic

A thread on RPGNet raised an interesting possiblity: using magic to learn skills/knowledge.

InCr to create knowledge, MuMe to change it ("I KNOW KONG FU!"). Or is it ReMe?

I can't find anything in the RAW to disallow it. Seems like a minor breakthrough waiting to happen... oh, the ramifications...

So we use a CrMe Ritual
of momentary duration (and Vis) to create a Knowledge.
What base level effect , and what is the level of the Knowledge created?

Knowledge is given by the Divine and must be earned. I suggest the following:

1 Exp per magnitude (min lv5...)
1 warping point per magnitude...ie 1 point for a level 5 spell.

I suggest the Warping because you are using magic to force your mind into a cetain pattern of thought (Essentially you are putting magic into your head).

I guess you could also argue for using Vis, because the effect is permenant. This would make the spell a ritual and look as follows:

Spell Level: General (20)
R: Ind D: Mom T: Ind

Bestows 1 Exp point per magnitude to the caster on a specific subject. The caster must have an arcane connection to the subject matter...ie Dragon Lore: You must have a piece of a dragon to learn about it, a sword to learn swordsmanship..etc.
The caster suffers warping of one point per magnitude (or part).

If the spell is cast at level 25 and above, the magus will automatically enter Twilight and have to roll to resist...

Don't mess with the Divine or the SG


Ok Urien, so your solution is to make this spell totally useless, then why are we discussing it?
Actually it wouldn't be that bad if you had 1xp pr lvl and 1wp per mag.

I believe it has already been established that Hermetic Magic couldn't be used to magically understand a text written in another language (instead, read the mind of someone reading the text). And also that a magus could only create things he knew about: if you don't know what a camel is, you can't cast a spell that creates a camel -- at best, you can cast a spell that create what you imagine a camel to be.

The mosaic example in the Creo guidelines (p77) also seems to go in that direction.

So basically, you wouldn't be able to use Creo to generate knowledge out of thin air, but you could use Creo on somebody else to teach them what you know. And conversely Creo & Intellego to learn what they know.

If such a spell works , it should not save you XP.
All it should do , is save you time.
No SG likes players having a free lunch.

One reason the spell might not work , is the Limit of Time.
It would normally take time to learn something ,
this is possibly Essential Nature for mortals also.
If a spell gives you instant Knowledge ,
it also ages you the same amount of time
it would have taken you to learn it.
Longevity Rituals do not negate this effect.

If Knowledge can be CrMe :
Does it have categories ,
e.g. Sand , Stone , Base Metal , Precious Metal , Gemstone for Terram.

What is a Base Individual Knowledge?
An alphabet or numbers maybe.
(SGs will not like Insta-language spells.)

I think a Rego requisite might be needed ,
as you are manipulating the Knowledge as well.


Hence my reply...

My response was both a joke, and a starting point.

The SG will really hate it if you whip up a 10 in something, just because you have the spell...(and can cast it over and over...)
The Vis Requirement sort of takes care of that.....

1 exp per magnitude....
Look at the various enhancement spells...ie raising strength. Minimum magnitude is 35, and will only raise you up one to a +1 (max)...and its a ritual. To Raise from +1 to +2, you need a different spell: Level 40...etc
You could possibly cast this spell (?) sixteen times a season. That works out to what...?? 64 Exp?

Warping/Twilight etc... Again, it puts the brakes on abuse....

Consider: IF YOU REALLY NEED, to know what will kill that creature, and you need to know now, you must be in big trouble. This is not really a bad trade if you look at it that way.

Even as a player, I don't like the idea of getting something for free...If you don't do something like this, every mage would have ridiculous scores in everything...This kind of ruins the game...Things can't be easy...

I'm personally against Learning thru magic but if it is possible I would have it this way:


General: Learn a specific knowledge at normal speed (Base quality 4). Ritual.

  • Add one magnetude to gain one point of quality
    ** Each Rank gained awards one warping point (minimum 1 & add one for partial)

Level 35 Gain 1 Rank of temporary knowledge to no more than Rank 3
Level 40 Gain 1 Rank of temporary knowledge to no more than Rank 5
Level 45 Gain 1 Rank of temporary knowledge to no more than Rank 7
Level 50 Gain 1 Rank of temporary knowledge to no more than Rank 9
Level 55 Gain 1 Rank of temporary knowledge to no more than Rank 10

  • Rituals
    ** Each application of this spell Causes warping

Ex. The Truth about Hermectic Law CrMe Level 15 (Base, +1 Touch, +2 Ring, +0 Circle) Ritual

Each season spent within the Ring, the target gains insight & clearity of the mind that allows to lean the subtilities of the code. The target gains 4 xp per season spent. If the target has the virtue clear thinker, he gains 3 extra Xp per season and one warping point per rank gained or partial rank gained.

Angus had 5.0 in hermectic Law but has been accused of a high crime for the next tribunal. He need to find the answers he seeks. He spends 3 seasons within the ring contenplating the truth & gains 3x4 (12XP) + 3x2 (6 Exposure XP) for a total of 18XP. Not enough to gain a rank. Angus does gain 1 warping fro the knowledge gaine & 1 warping point for beeing under the effect of a countinuous spell for a total of two warping points & now has 5.18 in hermetic law.

Ex2. The Truth about Hermectic Law CrMe Level 55 (Base, +1 Touch, +2 Ring, +0 Circle, +8 greater quality) Ritual

Angus gains 12 XP per season + 2 exposure XP for a total of 14XP. Over the 3 seasons, Angus gains 42XP which bring him to 6.12. he gains 2 warping points for the knowledge & 1 more for the continuous effect for a total of 3 warping points.

Angus will need to roll for twilight avoidance somewhere throughout the Learning experience (SG's call) since he will be gaining 2 warping points due to the experience.

Ex3. The Truth about Hermectic Law CrMe Level 60 (Base 45, +0 Personnal, +3 Moon, +0 Ind) Ritual

Angus neededs to know how to save his ass ASAP. The tribunal is just 2 weeks away. He gains 1 temporary rank in Hermetic law & one Warping point.

Only drawback i would see is Criamon could gain an advantage out of this.
Especially if you can teach Mysteries.
But a Magical Knowledge should have a base level of 50.
This would fit other Creo (Form) Ritual guidelines.

The warping points won't be as crucial to non-magi.

If these Rituals are specifically designed for an Individual ,
would that decrease the Warping points?

Why would the Criamon benefit from this?

As for the mysteries, I would simply have them as Incomprehensible untill properly initiated. Would the warping & slow learning be worth it? Meaby...

True. But magic is powefull.

No, I based myself on spell on P.129 Cheating the Reaper.

From the Twilight Experience.
Enigmatic Wisdom (page 92) makes Twilight more likely.
However it also aids Comprehending Twilight (page 88.)

Plus a Familiar with a decent Golden Cord score
will significantly reduce botch dice.

I'm with you on the not learning Knowledges by Magic.
But no reason not to test how it might work in practice.