Library discussion

I'll wait a little bit to see the results of the livrary vote and will then adapt the 3 libraries based on those results. Then I propose that we have another vote to decide which one we go with. Would that work for everyone?

We could also do the vote on the type of library right away and I'll put the two votes together to propose a complete library.

What say you? One step at a time or all at once?

Lets give the discussion some more time to see if any other point distributions or models are suggested.

If we assume maximum points into the top four vote recievers that is 312+352=132 points- add to that the caveat that we acknowledge the importance of having a code of hermes document but are less certain about the need for a high quality code of hermes document and this will still leave us a lot of points for other books. At which point the next point is whether to concentrate the remaining points in books on topics which received 3 votes or spread them around for anything that got a vote, or that got 2 or more votes.

I''d say spread them around. Four subjects got 3 votes, and three more subjects got 2 votes. I don't think seven more subjects is too much. That leaves us with 11 total texts, which seems reasonable.

The other question is points- do we all agree on the suggested 274 points out of 444 for the library? If we go with the extra 7 texts and 274 points that gives us an average of 20 points per remaining book, with a couple points left over. If we spend more points obviously we get better books- a level+quality of 20 is just north of discarded books... given our covenant's focus on books I think we should perhaps be willing to put more points into its books than 274...

The three sample libraries, adjusted to take into account the results of the library vote. If we decide to add more points to the library, then we can bump up the Level and/or Quality a few of the lesser books, or add a new book (summa or tractatus):

Sample Library #1 (274 points)

  • Terram summa L23 Q12 (free from the Exceptional Book boon, on the Art that got the most votes)
  • Creo summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Vim summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Intellego summa L15 Q15 (30 points)
  • Perdo summa L14 Q16 (30 points)
  • Rego summa L13 Q17 (30 points)
  • Corpus tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Muto tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Animal tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Code of Hermes summa L3 Q15 (24 points)
  • Finesse summa L8 Q8 (32 points)
  • Magic Theory summa L8 Q11 (35 points)

Sample Library #2 (274 points)

  • Terram summa L23 Q12 (free from the Exceptional Book boon, on the Art that got the most votes)
  • Creo summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Vim summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Intellego summa L12 Q15 (27 points)
  • Perdo summa L11 Q16 (27 points)
  • Rego summa L11 Q16 (27 points)
  • Corpus tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Corpus tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Muto summa L6 Q15 (21 points)
  • Animal summa L5 Q15 (20 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Finesse tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Finesse tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Magic Theory summa L8 Q11 (35 points)

Sample Library #3 (274 points)

  • Terram summa L23 Q12 (free from the Exceptional Book boon, on the Art that got the most votes)
  • Creo summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Vim summa L15 Q15 (30 points)
  • Intellego summa L12 Q15 (27 points)
  • Perdo summa L11 Q15 (26 points)
  • Rego summa L10 Q16 (26 points)
  • Corpus summa L6 Q21 (27 points)
  • Muto tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Animal tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Finesse tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Finesse tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Magic Theory summa L7 Q11 (32 points)
  • Magic Theory tractatus Q10 (10 points)

2/3 is just fine.

I think instead of throwing out sample libraries it would be more useful to discuss what guidelines we want to use for the library- do we want to even invest points into tracti? Or use tracti for abilities and not arts? Do we want to focus on covering a lot of arts or having quality books in a few?

As I recall, Kareruren and Arthur both expressed interested in making a library that was not necessarily the most efficient library possible. In particular, they proposed having tractatus in the library, even though it wasn't a particularly efficient use of points.

As for how to distribute the books, I think we're better off selecting a few good books on a narrow range of arts than a lot of mediocre books on a wider range of arts.

A compromise plan might be to include some tractatus, but make the summae that we can afford good ones.

That's pretty much what I did with #1. All of the summae are in the "sound" category, with a few tractatus thrown in for the tertiary Arts. We could replace the Code of Herme summa by a pair of tractatus (Q10 and Q11) and increase the Quality of the Finesse summa (back to 11) and that would correspond to that philosophy.

On the other hand, we may end up acquiring some vain summae during play to cover the Arts where we have nothing. They would be easier to obtain than additional sound summae, although eventually we would probably get some of those too.

Okay, let's try and advance the ball a bit. I think we're closing in on a final library decision. We just need one last little push.

Here are at least some of the questions remaining. I think if we can get these out of the way, we're most of the way there:

  1. Do we want to purchase tractatus with our starting points?
  2. If we do purchase tractatus, do we want them for Arts, abilities, or both?
  3. Do we want to make an efficient buy, or spread the points out into a more even library (keeping in mind that silveroak said that books with a L+Q of 20 are just above discarded books)? Another way to ask this question is: do we want only 'sound' books in our library, or do we want a few 'vain' books in it as well?
  4. Do we want to concentrate the library on the the subjects that got three or more votes (8 subjects), or do we want to spread the library out among subjects that got two or more votes (11 subjects)?
  5. Do we want to maximize points on the three top vote-getters (excluding Code of Hermes, which we all seem to acknowledge doesn't need to be maximized)? These are (Creo, Vim, and Magic Theory.)
  6. How many covenant build points do we want to put into the library?
  7. If we want to increase build points to the library, where do we want to take them from (specialists or vis resources)?

Here are my thoughts:

Do we want to purchase tractatus with our starting points?

I thought that the consensus was that we would, even though it wasn't as efficient as buying summae.

If we do purchase tractatus, do we want them for Arts, abilities, or both?

I don't have strong feelings on this. I'll defer to what other people want.

Do we want to make an efficient buy, or spread the points out into a more even library (keeping in mind that silveroak said that books with a L+Q of 20 are just above discarded books)? Another way to ask this question is: do we want only 'sound' books in our library, or do we want a few 'vain' books in it as well.?

Again, I thought the consensus was that we would make a more even library (including both sound and vain books), despite the fact that it wasn't the most efficient point buy. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

That having been said, I don't want to spend covenant build points on books that will be worthless (or essentially worthless).

Do we want to concentrate the library on the the subjects that got three or more votes (8 subjects), or do we want to spread the library out among subjects that got two or more votes (11 subjects)?

I'd say concentrate the summae on the highest vote-getters, and then devote tratatus to the others, if there are points left over.

Do we want to maximize points on the three top vote-getters (excluding Code of Hermes, which we all seem to acknowledge doesn't need to be maximized)? These are (Creo, Vim, and Magic Theory.)

I say yes.

How many covenant build points do we want to put into the library?

I say 299 points, per my latest proposal at Subject: Covenant Design Discussion

If we want to increase build points to the library, where do we want to take them from (specialists or vis resources)?

I say take what we can from the specialists, and keep the vis sources where they are.

I'm pretty much in agreement with all of Trogdor's points.

As for how much points to spend on the library, 299 bp is fine with me. The rest of the build points would be 125 bp for vis sources (25 pawns/year), 1 bp for vis stocks (5 pawns of Vim), 1 bp for silver (10 pounds) and 18 points for specialists (scribe/illuminator/binder).

That said, I would be in favor of dropping 6 points from the library to add a parchment maker, if the troupe agrees to that.

As for the content of the library, something along the lines of the latest sample #1 (modified for switching the Code of Hermes summa to a pair of tractatus) would most closely represent those preferences (good summae for the top choices, tractatus for the rest).

Okay, it seems like the best suggested template for adjustment so far will be this:
Terram summa L23 Q12 (free from the Exceptional Book boon, on the Art that got the most votes)
Creo summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
Vim summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
Intellego summa L15 Q15 (30 points)
Perdo summa L14 Q16 (30 points)
Rego summa L13 Q17 (30 points)
Corpus tractatus Q11 (11 points)
Muto tractatus Q11 (11 points)
Animal tractatus Q11 (11 points)
Code of Hermes tracti 2x Q11 (22 points)
Finesse summa L8 Q8 (32 points)
Magic Theory summa L8 Q11 (35 points)

Which is 274 points out of our current suggestion of 299 pints, leaving 25 points to spend.

Actually, you forgot to move the Finesse summa back up, leaving 2 points unused.

So it would be:

  • Terram summa L23 Q12 (free from the Exceptional Book boon, on the Art that got the most votes)
  • Creo summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Vim summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Intellego summa L15 Q15 (30 points)
  • Perdo summa L14 Q16 (30 points)
  • Rego summa L13 Q17 (30 points)
  • Corpus tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Muto tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Animal tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Finesse summa L8 Q10 (34 points)
  • Magic Theory summa L8 Q11 (35 points)

Since this is only 274 points, I would suggest making the following changes to move it up to 299 points:

  • Replace the Animal tractatus by a L10 Q15 summa (+15 points)
  • Add a Mentem tractatus Q10 (+10 points)

I'm good with that.

im on board

So let it be written so let it be done.

Final version of the library, then, with 299 build points:

  • Terram summa L23 Q12 (free from the Exceptional Book boon, on the Art that got the most votes)
  • Creo summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Vim summa L16 Q15 (31 points)
  • Intellego summa L15 Q15 (30 points)
  • Perdo summa L14 Q16 (30 points)
  • Rego summa L13 Q17 (30 points)
  • Animal summa L10 Q15 (25 points)
  • Corpus tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Muto tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Mentem tractatus Q10 (10 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Code of Hermes tractatus Q11 (11 points)
  • Finesse summa L8 Q10 (34 points)
  • Magic Theory summa L8 Q11 (35 points)

Orion tentatively plans to scribe the following lab texts in spring 1222:

  • Voice of the Bjornaer Magus MuAn15
  • Purification of the Festering Wound CrCo20
  • Eyes of the Cat MuCo(An)5
  • Wizard's Leap ReCo15
  • Fist of Shattering PeTe10
  • Pit of the Gaping Earth PeTe15
  • The Unseen Arm ReTe5
  • Hands of the Grasping Earth ReTe15