Limits of Creo Animal

A player of mine wants to create not so usual animals using Creo Animal, e.g. a winged snake.

The guestion is, is this perfectly doable with the Creo Animal combination, or should there be some Muto magic added? Muto would give an already existing snake wings, but how about if there was a Creo Animal spell that created a substance called a snake-that-has-wings. Would it be similar to a spell that creates a mere snake, but with a level increase of a magnitude or two for the complex design of the animal?

The basic guestion remains: Can Creo Animal create unusual animals, or does that kind of creation reguire Muto?

I would think that any "unusual" animal could be classified as a magical beast, and use the approprate guideline (base level 50).
The alternate approach (and not necessarily a conflicting one), is to use the Muto requisite.

I wouldn't allow simple Creo to create animals that do not normally exist, however.

What , there are no winged snakes in Finland?
How did they become extinct? :slight_smile:

Any winged serpent (Quetzalcouatalus) is , as you said ,
likely a magical beast.

But what if it was a Glider-type with membraneous bat-like wings.
Or something like an Archaeopteryx.
They don't exist naturally that we know of in 1220 AD ,
but at least one was natural in the past.

Being Mythic Europe ,
using regular Creo Animal guidelines ,
could let you create creatures from the fossil record.

Yes , i know that there is no Evolution (God made it all).
But the curiosities of finding rocks with preserved critters
might intrigue some magi to recreate the original.

Heh, it's the climate that killed all those.

I think that using fossils isn't actually going to fit to Mythic Paradigm, so I'll just rule that only natural animals can be created with Crea Animal, and any unusual creatures are either magical beings, or Created with Creo Animl (Muto)

Thanks for your answers.

Also consider that you are limited to what you know. You can't simply make something up and argue that it could exist. It exists or it doesn't exist. It's natural or it's unnatural.

On the remote chance that a wizard did see a preserved stone with an image of a flying lizard after studying it a magus would have to decide natural or magical? If natural, the wizard could try to create it with Creo Animal. However if the creature is unnatural I to would use a combination of Muto to alter a normal animal or use the Magical Animal rules to create the creature out right.

Oh yeah, and welcome to the Finlanders! :wink:

Option 1: CrAn 55(Base 50, Touch, Mom,Ind) Ritual Will created a permanent magical animal.

Option 2: CrAn(Vi) ?? (Base lower than 50, Touch, Sun, Ind) Will create a beast as strange as you want but that will disapear at the end of the duration since it is not a natural beast.

I do not believe there is a need for muto since you are creating someting.

Creating the winged tree horned dog
CrAn 30 (Base 15(I think), +1 Touch, +2 Sun, Ind) creature is mundane except for its wings & hornes (No might but can be dispelled)


CrAn 55(Vi) (Base 50, +1 Touch, +0 Mom, Ind) Ritual Creature will have a might & powers with proper Rq.

This would be my take on the matter.

You may want to check the Endless Mouse Plague thread from January 2005 on the Arm5 mailing list, and its Creating Magical Creatures follow-up. I can't remember if a conclusion was reached, though.

[color=darkblue]The Endless Mouse Plague thread was my doing. :mrgreen:
Iirc , there was no conclusion on the Magical Might of a created creature.
From Magical Animal Companion (page 56) , Might = 10 - Size.
So a Mouse of size -10 has a MM of 20.
Vim requisites could increase this
+01 Magnitude of Ritual is +05 Might perhaps.
Created creatures are a standard example of their type (average stats).
Any higher stat values need further spells to do so.
(Think this was on the Berk-list).

Actually creating any magical animal has a Vim requisite, so it would do no difference. You could rule, though, that raising the spell magnitude by one whould increase the might magic. How this works with the other enhancing rules (e.g. +1 magnitude = 10x the creatures in the group, IIRC) is unknown to be but worthy of playtesting.