Linked triggers and Intellego Mentem

Hi guys,
I just need clarification on a point as the rules seem a little vague to me.

If I put an Intellego Mentem effect into my talisman to monitor my thoughts, do I need to put in a seperate mentem effect for each action thought?

I have:
Ball of Abysmal Flame
Pilum of Fire
Crystal Dart

Do I need a mentem effect for each, or can the same one trigger them all?

If so, can I create the mentem effect, then just add other effects with linked triggers? From the way the rules are written, I think that I can.

The same mentem one can trigger them all, provided they have a linked trigger in each of them.

Mentem thought readers work quite well, only downside is they tend to be constant effects, and thus cause warping. I was planning on making a semi autonomous item that constantly read my mind at arcane connection.. .. until I realised that I'd be getting about 8 warping a year from it.. heh

And the problem is? Hey, we gotta go sometime and you might as well go strange.

The up side is that the explanation on page 99 is for a standard device, not a talisman, and so the Range can be "Self", since T's are defined differently.

So (if I'm reading it right), you only need an InMe 25 effect for a Talisman, not the 30 listed, so you're just missing that "high power" cut off for Warping (6th Magnitude, from p 168).

Still costs 3 vis, but, hey...

You know, I'm wondering wether Intellego spells should not not warp what they are cast on but rather the recipient of the information. That is, treat them all like Sensory target spells.


You mean that because the spell is, technically, giving the Talisman/Item the magical senses, it should warp that item, not the mage that it reads?

Makes some sense. The mage certainly isn't able to read any mental commands. Otoh, the mage is unquestionably the beneficiary of the spell, and effectively the "caster", and is certainly within the effect, so...

Dunno. Sounds like both are warped BTR, but it's hardly clearcut.

However, folk should remember 3 things-1) If an item, even a Talisman, "senses" stuff, the mage doesn't unless they then sense that item. So a wand that "hears" stuff isn't of much good to the mage unless s/he can talk to the wand. (an interesting premise...)

  1. As mentioned above, for a Talisman, the InMe effect is only 25, so it doesn't have to trigger Warping (but is close, SG decision, natch.)

  2. These rules (p 167-8 & etc) are not cut and dried. They specifically state that " 'Powerful effect' is subjective"- so the SG/troupe should use their best judgment at all times.

But then again, if the magus develops the effect themselves, won't they be immune to any warping effects anyway?

Whether the spell benefits a person is irrelevant, if it's a constant magical effect on them, they'll get warping. What you're thinking of is for the item to be able to read minds by its own power, which is using a personal range and one of the sense modifiers.. that would be a spell that was effecting the item.. a general InMe mind reader is cast on an individual target, not yourself.. so the target gets the warping.

Oh, and yes, you -could- use range personal on the InMe of a talisman, but then it can only read your mind while you're touching it, which might be a quite big drawback, depending what you want it to be doing.

And actually, in that specific case, the item has to be the caster really, otherwise it won't have anything to go with the linked triggers, and the mage would gain the dubious ability to read his own thoughts.. which.. .. might actually be interesting if it included subconscious stuff ^^

Oh, and the self developed effect only helps with the powerful effect causing warping Brutus, not constant warping

Thanks, I miss not having my books with me. I hate my memory.

It still matters mind, a constant powerful effect will give 5 warping a year, whereas a constant one is just 1 a year.. so.. it helps a lot :slight_smile:

You can start the mind reading effect to a trigger this way the magus uses it only when e.g. adventuring. It is less than one year so it will not cause warping.

Btw How will the mind reading overcome your parma?

You typically let it through, though if you wanted to be able to use it on other people, you could build penetration in I guess

If it is a Talisman, it doesn't need to. Ideally the talisman would have two effects for different ranges.

If the Reach effect can read your thoughts, everything is fine, works as usual.
If the reach effect is triggered but cannot read your thoughts a longer ranged version takes over (with pen).

The slightly tricky part would be to have both effects being able to trigger things in the device.

You cannot let it through all the day you have to concentrate to it.
If the talisman has this advantage I will make one, too. :smiley:

Well, actually.. if the spells got through.. it's got through.. and it'll last for whatever it's duration is.. you can't put up parma -after- someone's changed you into a frog and turn back.. or at least, we don't play that way.. it would negate a lot of the weaknesses of parma, which are few at that

Sorry, I meant Personal range, not Reach. Therefore not having to penetrate parma.

(I kinda miss 4th ed too, sometimes.) :wink:

Been converting 4th Ed NPCs to 5th Ed all evening for my SG. My mind is spinning a bit. He even had some 3rd Ed charas we had been using, he hadn't gotten around to updating their sheets....

I'd never heard of some of those virtues/flaws.

I miss a LOT of those! :cry:

in regards to warping, instead of constant duration you could easily do sun duration without the environmental trigger or item maintains concentration. You could then turn on your brain reading power whenever you thought yourself to be in a risky situation (such as whenever you leave your covenant). This would lead to times when you couldn't accesses the powers but it would also save you from warping.