Magic sword vs. Faerie Might

Wow, I'm persuaded. I had forgotten all about effect expiry. But now my inclination is to completely dump effect expiry rather than tweak the penetration rules.

Starting a new thread.

OK, how would we create a proper Quasitors blade?

As a base metal sword (steel/iron) then it would be 15 pawns of Vis? (Base metal = 5, Sword = x3)

Lets assume Wieldy Blade is a Rego Terram 5 for adding Finesse to Att, Def and Init (as the blade responds instintively to your will) would be Base ReTe 5, +1 magnitude for Conc, +1 Magnitude for Touch, and target Individual= 15.

24 uses per day= +5 levels
Concentration maintained by sword =+5 levels
Penetration 30= +15 levels

Total= 40

Now the Magi in question has a Lab Total of 26 and will get the +4 shape bonus, for a total of 30. Which means he cant enchant such a sword, or would have to compromise the design somewhere.

Is that correct?



Items can only use Range: Personal , on the wielder , if it is a Talisman (page 98).

This effect has been discussed in another thread (which I can't be bothered to dig up, sorry).
I mantain that it is invalid - you get either finesse (wielded magically) or combat skill (wielded mundanely), never the sum.

eh, an enhancement is an enhancement, whether its fixed number or an +X linked to a skill.

Or if you really wanted to mess up a faerie just have a Verditius make up an iron sword of virtue. I don't have my books handy but I think you can get up to a plus seven bonus against faeries. Plus items of virtue don't worry about penetration and costs much less vis.

Wow - my reply completely missed the track, sorry. :blush:

No worries. :slight_smile:

Or it bypasses it, if the rock is ballistic at the time. OF course then it requires a finesse roll and can be dodged. What matters is if the sword is being actively controlled at the time it strikes or not. As it is not an auto hit, and you generally get one defense against an attack, I would rule that it bypasses magic resistance.

Of course I would make it a pure finesse roll and not melee weapons + finesse.

But there are plenty of ReTe spells that ignore magic resistance. There is a whole group of Flambue who focus on exactly that kind of magic. This would be a way for them to fake using swords, while still using their finesse.

Of course if you just use magic to heat the sword up, it is now just a hot sword and will burn you with out regard to penetration. The important thing would be the duration of the spell.

I agree that penetration on normal items is not much of a problem, it is that your effect scales as your lab total in effect, because you need 2 points of lab total to get 2 points of penetration, except when you go to things that expire like charged items and expiry.

I can see a magus knowing two versions of a ReTe hit someone with a sword spell, on version would be an auto hit but is resisted by magic resistance, the other requires a finesse roll and is not resisted by magic resistance. Both could enhance the damage, or rather replace the users ST for a number like 5 for a base effect.

The finesse based one might have a cap on how much you can enhance the damage because it will be hard to hold onto a sword moving that much faster than you could swing it. I suppose you could have a separate effect for not dislocating your shoulder or throwing the sword away and magic resistance shouldn't matter for that.

Mundane rock, yes. Magical rock, no.

"If the magical bridge falls onto the maga, it is stopped, but does her no damage."

So if you drop an enchanted anvil on someones head, it does no damage as its effects don't have penetration?

The sword here is not a magically created sword. but a real sword that is either enchanted or having a spell effect it.

As there is a real sword as the basis for all of this that is not relevant.

That is the conundrum, the pink dot defense. Does Parma block or suppress?

If it is not relevant, why do you reply? Moving the goal post won't hide the fact that you kicked the ball to the sidelines.

Because we are discussing rego spells not creo. The existance and solidity of the objects are not in question. There are already rego spells that are effected by MR and ones that bypass MR. This is just making them melee spells instead of ranged spells. Hell for the finesse based ones you can use touch ranged spells to attack people at range.

Yup. There is an alternative I prefer to both of those two. It blocks magical effects/things, but not non-magical things. I know it sounds just like our typical blocking interpretation, but sometimes it seems to follow suppressing idea. Here are examples of how I like it to work, assuming there is too little penetration:

  1. Magic is continually pushing a mundane arrow to its target. The magical motion ends so the arrow is not moving through the PM.
  2. Magic launches a mundane arrow and lets it fly on its own. The arrow passes right through the PM.

Those are pretty well understood and accepted by everyone so those are nothing special.

  1. A mundane ballista bolt is Muto'd into an arrow and shot from a bow. The arrow stops at the PM because the entire thing present is magical.
  2. A mundane arrow shot from a bow has a pink dot placed on it by the almost crafty magus. The arrow passes through the PM without a pink dot.
  3. An arrow with no relevant enchantments is shot from a bow. It passes through the PM.
  4. An arrow is enchanted so it cannot break, and that's the only enchantment, is shot from a bow. It passes through the PM, but it could break on the magus's armor because the effect is excluded.
  5. An arrow is enchanted so that its tip is supernaturally sharp. It passes through the PM, but the tip that strikes the magus is only naturally sharp because the effect is excluded.

The big difference here is that I don't find #3 and #4 to exclude each other. I could see problems between #3 and #7 if you change some parts and not other parts of something via Muto, but generally the big problems should be avoided. I figure those remaining problems are smaller than the existing ones so I'm better off.


In canon if you use a Rego effect to swing a weapon to simulate weapon skill you both hit and penetrate. This is listed in at least one spot in RoP:M. The penetration is only avoided by throwing things, having already released them from the magic. But if you're swinging a weapon with skill, still magically holding it, then you have both. The alternative, just automatically striking, would seem better. However, if you have a high Finesse, a Concentration duration spell using Finesse could also work well for parries.


Yeah i think thats pretty much the way i prefer it as well.

You would need that for attack and defense certainly. But if they are just attacks I don't see the fact that you don't let go of the sword as making it suddenly suck in comparison to ranged attacks. The difference is that the concentration spell can be used in defense as well as attack, while instant spells are just attacks.

The only special effect that I am suggesting is that you don't let go of the sword. They would certainly work that way with ranged attacks.

Otherwise you need to start answering questions like why can't you block a pillum of fire with a sheild?