Making changes to an Initiation Script

So when you change a part of a script, does it have to be a different thing of the same type?

The only examples that I've found have been swapping the Minor Flaw from an Ordeal for a different Minor Flaw, is it possible to change it to a different category of bonus? Like changing a +3 Minor Ordeal to a +1 sacrifice of time as long as the script doesn't have that already?

Either way, what would be some good alternatives for the Vis + Warping cost on the heartbeast refinement script? I think it's a sacrifice of material goods and wealth that entails real personal loss because its only a +1.

Just some good examples of that element in general would be nice, when designing scripts of my own that's been the trickiest one to get a grip on.

The best choice is to remove it entirely if you can manage the 15 needed. It's a really expensive bit and it only gives you +1. It's just not worth it.

As for changing a component, there isn't anything very specific. Looking at the examples it would seem things should be of the same type:

It seems that way mostly because of the "should" in the second sentence there and because there are no examples otherwise. But it really makes no indication that it must be the same type.

I'd be tempted to lower or raise the EF slightly from 12 based on the scale of the change. But that isn't suggested at all.

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Well, yeah, if I could manage the 15 needed I would do that as long as it didn't result in me not being able to initiate, but I can't do that reliably compared to hitting the 12 with a confidence point as long as I roll at least a 1.

Anyone have advice on the later thing for general ideas for sacrifices that entail real personal loss?

Reading the rules in The Mysteries, it seems it has to be a similar type, as quoted by Callen. To switch it for a completely different thing would be a two-step process - the easy way is to add the new step (like adding a quest or a journey to a specific place as a specific time) with a difficulty 9 roll, do the version with the bigger bonus than you need, then remove the step you didn't want (the vis and warping) with a difficulty 15 roll. Keep initiating straightforward things to your heartbeast like new Qualities until you succeed at making the ritual how you want.

Good suggestion - for heartbeast, how about sacrificing all the meat you would eat in a year to wild scavengers? Effectively you are going on a symbolic fast, in terms of expense it is only moderate but in personal terms it is fasting and may reduce your living condition modifier slightly. I like it for the symbolism and it being an ascetic sacrifice.

If you want to replace it with a time and place, does the species of your heartbeast migrate or hibernate? Choosing to have to go to an ancestor site that's a perfect hibernation spot at midwinter (for a bear) or to reach the summer migration point on a specific day (great for birds or migrating herbivores) or a specific breeding place (like salmon going upstream or turtles going to lay eggs on a specific beach, or a large nesting site for birds) are all good for a sympathy bonus.

What a sacrifice means in terms of expense varies a lot depending on your covenant (rich covenants have to sacrifice a lot to make it mean anything) and troupe (do other players think your character isn't sacrificing much). This is why I like Verditius because they have a simple set of alternative sacrifices - money that increases with Hubris, sacrifice of a lesser item with a certain level of power, sacrifice of a greater item with a certain level of power.

Wait, you can make more than one change to a script if you do a modification, initiate and then you can do another modification?

I thought it worked as: you are initiating the Quality of Tough Hide and if you change the script it is only for initiating the Quality of Tough Hide. If you want to get a different Quality then the script is back to the default and you need to adjust it again.

Yes, and yes. :slight_smile:

For normal initation scripts you can do a single modification for an initiation, and if that worked then you have a new script which you can start with for further modifications.

The script for refinement of the inner heartbeast is a bit special though in that you start with one embryonic script which can be used for adding many different virtues and qualities to your inner heartbeast.
Modifying that embryonic script is certainly possible, but the question is if the new script you get that way is fixed for one particular virtue/quality/power.

RAW doesn't spell it out, but it probably is fixed - this new script isn't the super-flexible embryonic script you start with and if it is a normal initation script you cannot modify which virtue/quality/power it will grant.

I don't consider that to be a single initiation script. I consider it to be an infinite number of nearly identical ones. So adjusting one for Tireless would not result in an adjusted script that is usable for Crushing Jaws, for instance. (Meaning I share Ethan Steele's view.)

In which case, you and your fellow Bjornaer would need to develop fixed scripts for the specific virtues/ qualities/ powers you want and trade among yourselves.

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Yes, that should work.