Making extremely powerful mundane combatants?

If you're willing to do a bit of houseruling and/or take some subtle supernatural abilities there's some quite interesting possibilities.

This one is built using 3x the Personal Power virtue from RoP:M, and based on Shriek of the Impending Shafts (Base 2, +2 Sun, +3 Hearing, +6 Requisites*, +1 Constant, 25 levels to reduce the might/fatigue cost to 0)
*(Works on anything fitting any form other than Imaginem, Vim and Mentem... and those forms are really a bit unlikely to come up)

Danger Sense
Major Supernatural Virtue
You are continuously aware of any object that is either obviously dangerous (fire), or is moving fast enough to do harm, within earshot of you.
As long as you are capable of movement you get a +9 defence bonus against all attacks and can automatically succeed on any defence roll against a ranged attack from greater than ten paces away.

You can do impressive things with a geas or death condition. She could be immune to all harm to the body, save for that from children, or something like that.

Or she has a collection of magic items - several Arthurian knights had one or two, and Lancelot was weighed down with them - like, say, bracelets that ward against arrows, a girdle proofing the body against blades, boots that give both speed and flight, a diadem that gives unerring aim, a sword that cuts through any defense, a bow that always draws an arrow, and a rope that stretches to any length and cannot be cut.

:smiley:

I did simulations on spreadsheets once with two combatents fighting each other who were equally matched except for one virtue. The best virtues were in order:

1.Giant Blooded
2. Enduring Constitution (interpretation I used was turns light wounds into 0's, medium into -2's, and heavy into -4's)
3. Large (if no giant blood)
4. Puissant or Affinity
5. Quickness +5 - helps win initiative contests as well as defense bonus
6. Dex +5
7. Str +5
8. Sta +5
9. Beserker

I would add Tough, Self Confident and fix Enduring Constitution ("total penalty" only gives a single -1)

  1. Giant Blood, wound increment Minor Virtue (double Large = 4.4 def)
  2. Puissant XXX Weapon (+2 att, +2 def = +4 overall)
  3. Enduring Constitution (Exertion kinda secures a Medium Wound. +3 overall)
  4. Improved Characteristics to get any 3 Str/Sta/Dex/Qik to +1 (+3 overall)
  5. Tough (+3 def)
  6. Large (.1 Light + .2 Medium + .3 Heavy = 2.2 def)
  7. Giant Blood (double Large + Str/Sta = 6.4/3 = 2.1 def)
  8. Self Confident (using it shifts a Wound by 1 step, +2 overall)
  9. Improved Characteristics to get any 1.5 Str/Sta/Dex/Qik to +2 (+1.5 overall)
  10. Improved Characteristics to get any 1 Str/Sta/Dex/Qik to +3 (+1 overall)
  11. Cautious with XXX Weapon ( 2% failure * +10? def = 0.2 overall)

For a grog, Puissant + Tough + Warrior was my munchkin favorite, but Enduring Constitution might do better.

For a companion, Giant Blood + 2x Improved Characteristics yields Str/Sta+3, Dex/Qik+2 and 5 more Virtues to pick. I'd take Puissant, Enduring Constitution, Self Confident, Tough and Warrior if I had to fill them for pure combat.

Thanks for the correction, I knew I was missing a couple virtues. I didn't use Self Confident, but it clear would be a good virtue, especially if an ST is generous with Confidence awards per session, or if there's long stretches in between fights.

From what discovered, if Enduring Constitution gives only a net -1, it is by far the worst virtue to take. And yes, I forgot to add Tough and Cautiuos with Weapon. CwW's worth is highly dependant on the number of botch dice an ST makes a player roll when botching during combat. If it's only ever one die, then it's quite lousy and not worth the purchase.

I'd say under strict RAW, Giant Blood, Puissant, Tough, Affinity, Self Confident, improved stats x2, and have Str/Sta+2 and Qik/Dex+3, and Cautious with Weapon. CwW is a lousy virtue, but it DOES basically give you an exta life in the event you actually would have botched. When you need it, you REALLY need it.

Yeah, CwW saves you 2 seasons of recovering from an Incapacitating Wound, if the ASG is too friendly to kill you. :wink: I would have suggested Rapid Concalescence if getting wounded was a priority, but it pales compared to minor CrCo.

BTW, I meant to get all Str/Sta/Dex/Qik to +2, using Giant Blood to get to +3. Reversing it requires putting a -1 on some mental Characteristic (or 2, if you want a positive Per). Anything to avoid wounds is good.

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Well, "reliably fighting armies solo" is not mundane stuff in Ars Magica; it's supernatural stuff, and of fairly tall order.
But... how about a character like the following? She's a bit of a one-trick pony (she's supernaturally good at swordfights, but that's it); still there's a lot of interesting tactical stuff she can pull-off in a swordfight. She's designed as a standard Companion, with 9 points of Virtues balanced by 9 of Flaws, so there's still room for customization (particularly if you want to go the Mythic Companion route).

Yvonne, outlaw and former faerie squire

"My father was a faerie knight - so my mother tells me - and I will become a knight myself when I grow up!". Yvonne was probably the only person in her village who believed it; it is not easy for the lovely daughter of an unmarried washerwoman to find a man (not to mention a nobleborn knight) willing to train her in the harsh arts of war. To be fair, after running away from home at thirteen and narrowly escaping bandits, rapists, and other unsavoury types, Yvonne did find brief employment in a coven of witches and warlocks as one of the "grogs" - the thuggish armed henchmen of the sorcerers. But a thug is no knight, and (after stirring some trouble at the covenant) Yvonne left to seek her destiny. She went through many more adventures, and eventually met a fairy lord who took her as his squire. According to her mentor her learning was incredibly fast: after less than twenty years, he confided to her that she was already showing "remarkable progress" in her swordsmanship, and they would probably be able to move on to her lance in a few more decades. Then mace, riding, history of warfare, etiquette etc. etc.; she would probably earn her knighthood in a few brief centuries! Yvonne fled back to the mortal world. Yet she found she no longer fit in. After the wonders of the Court of Jasper and Opal, no mortal place felt like home. She roamed the land seeking employment as a mercenary; men laughed at her when she claimed to be a knight (well, she was technically still a squire, but...) . And after she challenged Count Lefevre's men to combat to prove her worth, and slew seven of them while setting five more to flight, she was declared a witch and an outlaw. Where will she go now?

Characteristics: Int+1 Per +1 Pre+2 Com -3 Str+1 Sta +1 Dex+2 Qik +2

Size: 0

Age: 36(21)

Warping Score: 3(0)

Confidence Score: 1(3)

Virtues and Flaws+: Outlaw, Enchantment*, Strong Faerie Blood++, Affinity with Single Weapon, Grant*, Ware*, Envied Beauty**, Faerie Upbringing*, Oversensitive(to desrespect), Rolling Stone***

  • From RoP:F.
    ** From HoH:S.
    *** From Grogs.
  • Note that Yvonne gains no Flaws from her Warping score of 3 - she undergoes Faerie Calling instead (see RoP:F).
    ++ Yvonne's faerie blood provides her with a positive Sympathy in swordfights at a basic score of 1, which she raised 7 points further (3 from Warping, 3 from Strong Faerie Blood and 1 from Faerie Upbringing) with experience.

Personality Traits: Touchy +3, Knightly +1, Flirtatious -2

Reputations: Witch 2

Combat: Init +3, Atk +23(+27*), Def +20(+22*), Dmg +7
*When Enchanted with Puissant Weapon, Improved Dexterity, Great Dexterity, see below

Soak: +6

Fatigue Levels:

Wound Penalties:

Abilities:
Athletics 2 (grace), Awareness 1 (alertness), Brawl 1 (dodging), Enchantment 4, Etiquette 2 (Faeries), Faerie Lore 3 (faerie courts), Faerie Sympathy (Swordfights) 8, Grant 2, Leadership 1 (battle), Riding 3 (battle), Second Sight 2 (battle), Single Weapon 9 (swords), Speak Own Language 5, Survival 1 (local area), Ware 2.

Equipment: Mail Haubergeon, Coif, Longsword (Load 3, Encumbrance 1)

Note: Yvonne was mentored to wield the sword at a level of ability unheard of in mortal lands. Not only her Characteristic+Single Weapon (including her Sympathy as a specialty) is a phenomenal 19; her mentor has taught her a number of secret techniques that she can bring out with Enchantment (using Single Weapon as the performance ability) in combination with Grant and Ware. Her Sympathy score of 8 allows her to perform Rites of up to level 40; although her Method+Power total is lowish, she can build up impressive casting totals over a few rounds with Enchantment (see RoP:F). Often, she performs these Rites while practicing, setting them to affect her on her next real combat (or her next sparring session) with D:Geas/While in battle (+3) or D:Geas/Sun (+4). Typical effects include Granting herself Minor Virtues like Puissant Weapon, Cautious with Single Weapon, Improved Dexterity, Great Dexterity, and a Minor Blessing that always makes a sword available when she needs it if it's remotely possible (Base 15); Warding herself from any mundane opponent with whom she's involved in a swordfight (Base 1) or from any with whom she's not, as long as she is in some swordfight (Base 15); Granting minor (Base 10) or Major (Base 30) flaws on her enemies while she fights them with her sword; slicing through, or parrying, supernatural effects with her sword etc. She can literally fight mundane armies single-handedly.

EDIT: in the original post I had mistakenly listed Yvonne's "starting" score in her Sympathy at 4 (1+Warping score). As correctly pointed out by callen, according to RoP:F it should be 1. I fixed that, and balanced the 45xp I had thus overspent by reducing from 3 to 2 Yvonne's Etiquette, Grant, and Second Sight scores.

Ah, alright! That looks really good! I'm more concerned about her coming off as mundane, not actually being mundane. The Faerie reliance does have the unfortunate implication that Dominion auras will have their way with her, but she's not really the type to smash her way into the church and then start fighting anyway (she'd probably have already done her rights before entering any particularly strong Dominion aura), so that looks like it ought to work well enough. Thank you very much!

Just a quick note on that build. The ++ note is incorrect. The base value is set by Minor/Major. It's limit (excepting via 1s) is set by the original value, Warping Score, and certain faerie V&F. Warping Score doesn't add to it.

Is there a Virtue point left? Cautious with Ability is even more valuable when the Ability usually has a Sympathy Trait linked to it.

Woah! Spending 180 xp here seems a little too much. With the 225/1.5 = 150 xp on Single Weapon that's 12 + 10 = 22 years of Later Life. And she has 250 - 10 = 240 xp in other abilities. IOW, she needs (240 - 45)/15 = 16 - 3 = 13 more years. She has to be 5 + 13 + 22 = 40 years old.

That may be due to the error I mentioned. 175, though, not 180, since it doesn't start at 0.

Ok, so only the first point from Strong Faerie God Blood is free. Those from SFB and Faerie Upbringing clearly must be paid, and those from Warping... isn't clear.

For clarity:

Starting value: 1 (5 experience)
Limit: starting value 1 + Strong Faerie Blood 3 + Faerie Upbringing 1 + Warping Score 3 = 8

This character may spend experience to get a score as high as 8 but no higher. The only other changes are from rolling 1s (not limited to a score of 8) and botches. Since this is character creation, those haven't shown up yet.

You are right, my mistake. I was confused by the fact that in some cases (e.g. negative sympathies, or sympathies from Faerie Background) Warping Score adds to the initial "free" score, rather than to the limit only. So, I've overspent 45xp (Sympathy starts at 1 rather than at 4, i.e. at 5xp rather than 50). Two easy fixes: either bump up age by 3 years, or reduce a few scores. As I like the "young looking lass who's a terror in combat" concept I'm about to edit the original post to do the latter, reducing from 3 to 2 each of Etiquette, Second Sight and Grant.

You can add one more minor Virtue if you add one more minor Flaw, since there are currently 9 points of each.
However, adding Cautious with Single Weapon seems rather pointless, since it's easy for Yvonne to have a "hanging" Grant that activates, Granting her Cautious with Single Weapon, the next time she is in a real fight (and possibly a second one that activates the next time she is practicing, so she can "rebuild" up her store of hanging effects without ever risking a botch).

I had made a small mistake with the "initial" score of the Sympathy that had caused me to overspend 45xp (i.e. 3 years of experience). I fixed it. Not including the "xp" Yvonne gets from Virtues, such as the initial 5xp in e.g. Second Sight, or the bonus xp from her Affinity, Yvonne has 585xps. Of these, 175 are spent on her Sympathy; 150 on her Single Weapon Ability; the remaining 260 on other Abilities. Note that 260xp is what a "normal" character gets by the age of 14-15, and Yvonne has spent almost 20 years practicing swordsmanship obsessively with her mentor in Faerieland.

Yvonne's very high Sympathy is, mechanically, central to her concept, because (in addition to allowing her to outstrip her "normal" ability limit with the sword) it gives her access to faerie rites of a reasonable magnitude and all the nifty bonuses she can get from them.

Ok, I understand the point of this now. Thank you!

In the case of Faerie Background Warping Score sets the value (for both positive and negative Sympathies), not adds to it. That would put it at 3, not 1+3=4.

You misunderstand. I didn't say "Cautious with Single Weapon." What she really wants is Cautious with Enchantment (Cautious with Grant being the second-best choice). Then she's a lot safer getting Cautious with Grant via Enchantment+Grant, which makes her a whole lot safer getting everything else. This is because your comment "without ever risking a botch" seems to ignore the stress die for the faerie rite.

Yes. Which means that in all the cases I cited, the resulting Sympathy (whether positive or negative) equals:
+ , i.e.:
0 + Warping for Faerie Background
1 + Warping for Faerie Antipathy, Minor
3 + Warping for Faerie Antipathy, Major
That's what confused me!

Meh. Just roll a simple die for her rites and avoid any risk of botch!

The only serious advantage I see when rolling a stress die with Enchantment+Grant or Enchantment+Ware is that you have a chance of rolling a 1, which means your Sympathy will go up without requiring you to spend xp on it. But Yvonne already has a lot of opportunities of doing that by rolling Single Weapon with her Sympathy as a bonus.

I don't think that is allowed. It is vague because the Sympathy Traits apply differently to the rite, but they do apply. We can see that they are affected normally by 0s and 1s as if they apply, as well. When Sympathy Traits are used the die is always a stress die. Though far from explicit, I think the intent that this roll must always be a stress die is pretty strongly implied.