Martial Arts stub (updated)

Games Discussion Ars Magica
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The system has been updated! See THIS POST for details!

I've been toying around with the idea of giving mundanes more options in combat (aside from just attacking, and performing a maneuver)

So far I thought up a Feat system.

"Why?" You might ask, and to that I cannot respond. It's something I invented in a spur of the moment.

Aside from normal actions during combat, a martial artist can perform feats. Unlike combat maneuvers, which take up an action, feats are made as part of the attack action, often causing effects in addition to normal soakable damage.

Learning Feats

Every feat has an associated Accelerated Ability. Whenever a character gains experience in any of the Martial Abilities, they may instead choose to gain an equal amount of experience divided between any number of feats. As usual, however, the feat must be something the student must have a reasonable chance of acquiring.

Using Feats

Before making an attack, the martial artist may declare using a feat. When using a feat, add the generated Attack Advantage to the feat’s Ability score, and subtract the feat’s Level. If the total is positive, the feat is flawlessly executed. If the total is negative, but no less than -10, the feat fails, but the attack is still made. If the total is less than -10, the action is completely wasted.

The feat’s effects are always resolved after the attack’s damage is applied (this is definitely contentious).

Feat Total:

Attack Advantage + Feat Ability - Feat Level

Guidelines

General: For every 1 point, impose a penalty of -1 to one total for one round.

General: For every 3 points, impose a penalty of -1 to all totals in a round.

General: For every 6 points, make an enemy lose one action.

General: For every 9 points, make an enemy lose one round, during which they cannot use reactions.

General: Gain half point bonus to one total.

General: Take point penalty to one total, gain equivalent bonus to another total.

General: Take a point number of additional botch dice, gain an equivalent bonus to another total.

General: Forgo an action to gain double point bonus to one total, or point bonus to all totals in a round.

General: Forgo a round (including reactions) to gain triple point bonus to one total, or double point bonus to all totals in a round.

General: For every 1 point, deal a point of damage, inflicted and Soaked as environmental damage.

General: For every 6 points, make an additional attack at -10 penalty.

General: For every 12 points, make an additional attack at -5 penalty.

General: For every 18 points, make an additional attack at no penalty.

General: Perform a combat maneuver up to half the point bonus at the same time.

6: Cause a Light Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

12: Cause a Medium Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

18: Cause a Heavy Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

24: Cause an Incapacitating Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

30: Cause a Fatal Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

Sample feats

Feint

Level 5

Feign an attack, imposing -5 penalty to the next Defense Total generated by the target.

Hunter’s Focus

Level 5

Lose your main action this round, to gain +10 bonus to an Attack Total on your next attack.

Absolute Defense

Level 5

Forgo attacking and reacting to focus entirely on defending against mundane threats. Gain +10 bonus to all Defense Totals until the beginning of your next round.

Berserker’s Gambit

Level 5

Take -5 penalty to your next Defense Total in order to gain +5 bonus to your next Attack Total.

Brutish Shove

Level 6

Knock the enemy prone with the strength of your attack.

Disorientating Stun

Level 15

Batter the foe. They cannot use actions or reactions for a round, and take -2 penalty to all totals for that time.

Disarming Cut

Level 20

Disarm the enemy, and gain +1 bonus to your next Attack Total against them.

Assassin’s Blow

Level 24

Abuse the enemy’s obvious weak point, inflicting an Incapacitating Wound.

Swift Flurry

Level 24

Make two additional attacks against any target within range, both at -5 penalty.

Beheading Sweep

Level 36

Kill an enemy, and with additional momentum make another attack at -10 penalty.

Aside from that, I'm also looking to make sort of martial Arts, but I'm not sure where to begin. I've got a couple ideas swirling in my head though.

I'm looking forward to a fruitful discussion, less of "why have you even done this" and more "how can we make it better". Cheers :slight_smile:

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So if you take an absolute defense feat and I respond with a beheading sweep feat how does your absolute defense help to prevent me from taking your head off? Also worth noting that as written I could take your head off with my bare hands and sufficient brawl given these rules.
Frankly even on a conceptual level this is a really bad idea, and even if it were pursued the parallel learning should probably be diverted from training in martial abilities, not be given as a bonus. Perhaps you could include combat techniques that would be learned the same way formulas are in philosophical alchemy that would provide less dramatic effects when used with the associated core combat skill.

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So if you take an absolute defense feat and I respond with a beheading sweep feat how does your absolute defense help to prevent me from taking your head off?

Please keep in mind that using feats works off Attack Advantage. If Absolute Defense provides +10 to your Defense Totals, this includes being targeted with a feat-bound attack, making it much less likely to hit.

Perhaps you could include combat techniques that would be learned the same way formulas are in philosophical alchemy

If you look at "Learning Feats", that's almost exactly how it works. "Whenever a character gains experience in any of the Martial Abilities, they may instead choose to gain an equal amount of experience divided between any number of feats." so if you gain 3 xp in Single Weapon, you can instead gain 3 xp in Feint (therefore, you forfeit your Single Weapon experience). This would be enough to give you score 2 in Feint feat.

One definite improvement I could make is tying the feats to weapons with which they were trained - if you trained Beheading Sweep with an axe, you can only do it with an axe, and in order to use Brawl, you'd need another feat - same level, but differently flavored.

4

Well, this is certainly interesting.

Under your system, learning a high-level Feat is somewhat like learning a high-level Formulaic spell, but you can learn it by investing even a single point into it. Now granted, that you won't be able to cast the high level spell (pull off the feat) without investing more XP into it. But still, for low-level feats or high attack-bonus fighters, this can be very significant. You might want to consider requiring a minimum of Feat Level in XP in order to master it.

Another issue is magic resistance. You essentially grant the fighter a targeting ("aiming") roll in lieu of magic resistance. I think this conforms well to Ars Magica's rules, but in practice can be quite powerful and rather neuter magic resistance.

A Standard Soldier with some years under his belt can invest them to learn a Feat to level 6, perhaps even a few, and can often pull off a significant positive Attack Advantage. With your guidelines, this amounts to a Light or Medium wound or make an enemy lose one action or round. I think the latter guidelines are too cheap, but generally I think your guidelines fit this power level fairly well, so this is not too overpowering.

One major problem with the "cannot be Soaked" guidelines is that of fighting big opponents with lots of Soak and Size (and hence "hp" per body level). These guidelines mean that high-level martial artists will be exceptionally deadly against such foes.

Overall this system will definitely increase mundane's power level. I'd suggest allowing it only for Companions, or even Mythic Companions.

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You might want to consider requiring a minimum of Feat Level in XP in order to master it.

Hmm.. Perhaps we could rejig the way learning them works. Suppose there's several Martial Arts Accelerated Abilities themed around certain styles of benefits, and "learning" the feats requires a [Martial Ability (Single Weapon, Great Weapon, Bows or Brawl) + Martial Art (whatever goes there) + Characteristic] of certain height. Then, every feat would have an associated mastery Ability, much like spells. the actual Feat Total would be Attack Advantage + Martial Art + Feat Mastery - Feat Level.

Another issue is magic resistance.

Magi and some hedge wizards have the capacity to grant wards and defenses, which reduce the likelihood of getting cut up with a greatsword feat. Besides that, I think it's enough to justify the fact certain people can fight off a wizard.

One major problem with the "cannot be Soaked" guidelines is that of fighting big opponents with lots of Soak and Size (and hence "hp" per body level). These guidelines mean that high-level martial artists will be exceptionally deadly against such foes.

I have been considering adding a maximum Size of "Size of the martial artists +1" with about 3 levels per Size adjustment (thus, targeting a Size 5 giant as a Size 0 fighter would take 12 levels of Size adjustment for the feat)

Overall this system will definitely increase mundane's power level. I'd suggest allowing it only for Companions, or even Mythic Companions.

I suppose it would be indeed useful to have a Martial Training Major Virtue - without the Virtue, all Martial Arts advance as Abilities (very slowly) and with the Virtue, they advance as Accelerated Abilities. How about that?

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I have updated the martial thing, adding some more details, Martial Mastery, as well as Virtues and Flaws.

Martial Arts

A mundane martial artist has access to Martial Arts. They are Difficult Arts, advancing as Abilities.

Feats

Aside from normal actions during combat, a martial artist can perform feats. Unlike combat maneuvers, which take up an action, feats are made as part of the attack action, often causing effects in addition to normal soakable damage.

Designing Feats

Feats have a selection of guidelines, which can be freely mixed and matched by simple addition. For example, using one guideline at level 6 and another at level 9 will result with a level 15 feat.

Every feat must be tied to a specific weapon. For example, a Beheading Sweep can only be performed with a greatsword, and in order to achieve the same effect with a different weapon, you must design and learn a new feat, of the same level but possibly different flavoring.

By default, feats can only be used on creatures up to 1 size category higher than you. You may spend 3 points for every additional size category. For example, in order to target creatures up to 5 size categories higher than you, you must spend 12 extra points when designing the feat. The size of a foe you wish to affect is ingrained in the feat’s design.

Learning Feats

In order to learn a feat, a martial artist spends a season honing his ability, generating a Honing Total. If the Honing Total equals or exceeds the feat's level, the feat is learned. You may learn multiple feats in the same season, so long as the sum of their levels is equal or lower than the Honing Total using the lowest applicable Martial Art. If you can write, you generate a manual which can be read by others. Reading a manual reduces the feat's level by half when learning it, meaning you must only meet half of its level with your Honing Total. Honing your ability counts as a season of exposure in either Martial Ability or Martial Art used.

Honing Total:

Martial Ability + Martial Art + Intelligence

Mastering Feats

Every feat has an associated Ability. Mastering a feat adds one to the Feat Total and removes one botch die from the feat attack. Practicing a feat yields Source Quality of 5. If you can read, you can also use Summae and Tractatus related to the feat.

Reactive Mastery

The martial artist may use the feat attack as a reaction according to the rules for reacting in combat. The martial artist still takes the -10 penalty to his Attack Total and risks the extra botch dice, although the botch dice will be partially offset by his Mastery Ability.

Defensive Mastery

Your Defense Total is doubled against enemy attacks using the same or similar feat.

Offensive Mastery

The martial artist’s Mastery Score is added to his Attack Total while using the feat.

Devastating Mastery

The martial artist’s Mastery Score is added to his Damage total, if the feat attack hits.

Careful Mastery

The martial artist’s Mastery Score is once again subtracted from the botch dice.

Using Feats

Before making an attack, the martial artist may declare using a feat. When using a feat, add the generated Attack Advantage to the related Martial Art score plus Feat Mastery, and subtract the feat’s Level. If the total is positive, the feat is flawlessly executed. If the total is negative, but no less than -10, the feat fails, but the attack is still made. If the total is less than -10, the action is completely wasted.

If the feat uses multiple martial arts, add the lowest Martial Art applicable to the total.

The feat’s effects are always resolved after the attack’s damage is applied (CONTENTIOUS).

Feat Total:

Attack Advantage + Martial Art + Feat Mastery - Feat Level

Martial Art Guidelines

Handicap

General: For every 1 point, impose a penalty of -1 to one total for one round.

General: For every 3 points, impose a penalty of -1 to all totals in a round.

General: For every 6 points, make an enemy lose one action.

General: For every 9 points, make an enemy lose one round, during which they cannot use reactions.

Assassination

General: For every 1 point, deal a point of damage, inflicted and Soaked as environmental damage.

6: Cause a Light Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

12: Cause a Medium Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

18: Cause a Heavy Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

24: Cause an Incapacitating Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

30: Cause a Fatal Wound, which cannot be Soaked, in addition to normal damage.

Swiftness

General: For every 6 points of Advantage, make an additional attack at -10 penalty.

General: For every 12 points of Advantage, make an additional attack at -5 penalty.

General: For every 18 points of Advantage, make an additional attack at no penalty.

General: Perform a combat maneuver up to half the point bonus at the same time.

Transcendence

General: Gain half point bonus to one total.

General: Take point penalty to one total, gain equivalent bonus to another total.

General: Take a point number of additional botch dice, gain an equivalent bonus to another total.

General: Forgo an action to gain double point bonus to one total, or point bonus to all totals in a round.

General: Forgo a round (including reactions) to gain triple point bonus to one total, or double point bonus to all totals in a round.

Savagery

6: Hamper a foe, such as making them lame. Heals as a Light Wound.

12: Cripple a limb, making it unusable but still capable of healing. Heals as a Medium Wound.

18: Same as above, but heals as a Heavy Wound.

24: Destroy or sever a limb, so that it cannot heal naturally.

Sample feats

Feats presented here can by default affect creatures of Size up to one category higher than the martial artist’s.

Feint

Handicap 5 (sword)

Feign an attack, imposing -5 penalty to the next Defense Total generated by the target.

Hunter’s Focus

Transcendence 5 (shortbow)

Lose your main action this round, to gain +10 bonus to an Attack Total on your next attack.

Absolute Defense

Transcendence 5 (heater shield)

Forwgo attacking and reacting to focus entirely on defending against mundane threats. Gain +10 bonus to all Defense Totals until the beginning of your next round.

Berserker’s Gambit

Transcendence 5 (axe)

Take -5 penalty to your next Defense Total in order to gain +5 bonus to your next Attack Total.

Brutish Shove

Swiftness 6 (polearm)

Knock the enemy prone with the strength of your attack.

Disorientating Stun

Handicap 15 (mace)

Batter the foe. They cannot use actions or reactions for a round, and take -2 penalty to all totals for that time.

Disarming Cut

Swiftness/Transcendence 20 (short sword)

Disarm the enemy, and gain +1 bonus to your next Attack Total against them.

Assassin’s Blow

Assassination 24 (dagger)

Abuse the enemy’s obvious weak point, inflicting an Incapacitating Wound.

Swift Flurry

Swiftness 24 (shortsword)

Make two additional attacks against any target within range, both at -5 penalty.

Beheading Sweep

Assassination/Swiftness 36 (greatsword)

Kill an enemy, and with additional momentum make another attack at -10 penalty.

Virtues

Martial Artist

Major, General

You are very well-adjusted to learning martial arts. You treat all Martial Arts as normal Arts advancement-wise. In addition, you may take Martial Virtues and Flaws.

Conjoined Martial Arts

Major, Martial

You've come to see two martial styles as very similar to each other. Pick two Martial Arts. When gaining experience in one, you gain half as much in the other. In addition, when designing, learning and using feats that utilize both Arts, you use higher of the two (if the feat uses a third, lower Art, you must still use the lower).

Flawless Feats

Major, Martial

You automatically gain Mastery Score 1 in every feat you learn, and you double your experience point gain when mastering feats.

Martial Trance

Major, Martial

Whenever you take more than three wounds in real combat (this excludes training, and self-inflicted wounds) you enter a terrifying trance. You may ignore penalties from wounds and fatigue, and you do not go unconscious until you are dead. Every round after the first while in the trance, you must pass a Stamina + Concentration roll against an Ease Factor of 6, or you are knocked out of the trance; every additional round increases the Ease Factor by 1. Once knocked out of the trance, you cannot enter it for the remainder of that battle.

Mastered Feats

Minor, Martial

You gain 50 experience points which you can spend exclusively on mastering martial feats.

Spontaneous Feats

Major, Martial

You can perform feats in the spur of the moment. First, design a feat as you declare using it. Generate Feat Total as normal and at the end halve it. If, after halving, the total equals or exceeds the desired feat's level, you pull it off; otherwise the action is wasted.

(Creature) Hunter

Minor or Major, Martial

You are proficient in hunting down and vanquishing a certain type of foe, which can be any kind of creature. Whenever you are in combat with the creature, you may add your Hunt score to Initiative, Attack and Defense Totals, but only against the creature. The Virtue can be either Minor or Major, depending on how broad the hunted category is - a manhunter’s version would be Major.

Flexible Feats

Major, Martial

You can use feats with any weapon close to the one you’re training with - for example, if you trained Beheading Sweep with any greatsword, you can perform the feat with any other sword.

Titan Brawler

Minor, Martial

You can take on foes much larger than you. The maximum Size category you can target with your feats is 2 higher than your own. You may take this Virtue multiple times, each time increasing the maximum Size category by one.

Martial Training

Minor, Martial

You have 50 experience points you may spend on Martial Arts and feats you can learn.

Flaws

Careless Fighter

Minor, Martial

You roll two additional botch dice when using feats.

Creative Block

Minor, Martial

You have problems designing your own feats. You take -3 penalty to Honing Total when learning your own feats, unless you are using a manual.

Deficient Style

Minor, Martial

Choose one of your martial arts. Halve your Feat Total before subtracting the Feat Level whenever you use that martial art. In addition, your Honing Total with the art is halved as well. The martial art has its full value for the purposes of increasing it with experience.

Rigid Style

Minor, Martial

For some reason you are completely unable to combine one Martial Ability with one Martial Art, such as Brawl with Swiftness. This Flaw may be taken multiple times for different combinations.

Difficult Mastery

Minor, Martial

Halve the Source Quality whenever you try to master feats.

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It's been a while, but I come with a remade subsystem for martial arts.

Main points:

  • the arts come in two categories: Techniques and Styles. Techniques are Strike/Augment/Stance, and Styles are Savagery/Assassination/Duelling.
  • each Technique interacts differently with combat totals.
  • There's a guideline-esque table of effects for each combination.

Strikes replace combat damage with a special effect. Augments add some effect on top of damage. Stances provide bonuses to the martial artist.

All are Difficult Arts, but if you're a Martial Artist (mythic character), Styles advance normally and you get a couple extra Virtue/Flaw options.

Here's the link to the document. Please, peruse at your own leisure.

I could have made a new thread, but I feel like it wouldn't be as appropriate.

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