Merinita Becoming mystery question

When a merinita mage uses the becoming mystery to sacrifice the gift and become a faerie creature its unclear in the stated rules how spells are handled. Does the character still roll his technique and form or does the spell work like faerie powers and require no roll, just the expenditure of might?
Also would a character who undergoes the becoming before initiating glamours be able to learn it from a merinta mystagog or would they no longer be able to attain virtues from hermetic initiations?
The other immortality paths with their inherent inability to change would make aquiring virtues incredibly difficult but the becoming doesn't stop the faerie from increasing his abilities it only makes learning new ones more difficult. On the other hand these initiations serve to integrate non-hermetic abilities into the hermetic framework and once a character has given up the gift it would seem they wouldn't be restricted to the hermetic framework.

Good question, I think the merinita maga become a faerie in it's complete aspects, all her spells transforming into faery powers. (at the end of the becoming section, look for "The Empowered Faerie" it looks like it imply that the spell penetration is calculated as might powers so I think it's a good guess.

Another very good question. I don't think it's something covered by the rules. For my part through I'd rule that no, A faerie cannot learn virtues by initiation. Faeries don't change much and they have hard time gaining new abilities and even spells. (as they are immortals this could be really unbalancing too).

Well that was only my advice on the question,
Hope this help !

As for the abilities I agree that was the way I was going to go with them, no need for rolls since you are paying points for each use.

The real problem I'm having is figuring out how the transforming the spirit part is even possible for any magus who isn't completely specialised in just one form and technique. With the level of the effect being the total score in arts the most a character that wanted to do it could have in arts other than his primary technique and form would be equal to his magic theory + int + aura. If he's got more than that in other arts he can't get that lab total in one season.

With a familiar helping in the lab he can get a few more points but he couldn't have an apprentice also helping since having even the minimum 5 in all the arts needed to actually train an apprentice would put his lab total far out of reach.

I've got a character who wants to eventually have his character become a faerie but the problem i'm seeing is that unless he learns nothing except one form and technique he will never make the lab total. And if once he does the transformation of the spirit even if he doesn't complete the other two parts, he's already given up the gift, so any other initiations would have to be done before it.

Anyone have any ideas, other than exeperimentation, that would allow a character who wanted to attempt the becoming ritual to be anything other than a truly narrow specialist?

Ordeals help some.

Basically, I figure all the character's spells become powers. Since she doesn't have The Gift, she can't cast spells like magi. Since she has Faerie Might, she is a faerie.

Well, yes, once the maga becomes a faerie, she can't do Hermetic stuff any more. I would include Hermetic Mystery initiations in that category. However, most Merinita initiations are both Magic and Faerie, and so as a storyguide I might agree that the character could initiate Faerie versions of the Merinita Mysteries, like Glamour. It should be possible for the faerie character to do Glamour things somehow, because it's something that faeries can do.

What's going on here is that increasing Arts represents the character becoming more Magic than Faerie. The more magical the character, the harder it will be to transform her. As Fruny points out, Ordeals are a good solution, because you can take a Major Flaw to reduce your total by 45. Other things that boost your Lab Total are good too, like assistants (not necssarily apprentices), familiars, experimentation, and Lab bonuses. Perhaps a Lab Text would boost her total?

Once the character's Arts scores become too high for her to possibly transform herself, the only other way to manage it is to somehow reduce her Arts. Perhaps there are ways that the character can subtract experience from Arts, like quests and ordeals. I'd imagine this is something that some faeries can do. Perhaps there's a Minor Flaw, something like "Reduced Arts" that takes away 50 experience points' worth of Arts? That might be one way to represent such a curse.

[quote="Erik Dahl"]
As Fruny points out, Ordeals are a good solution, because you can take a Major Flaw to reduce your total by 45.


What? Taking a major flaw to reduce a lab total?
The only things I've read dealing with ordeals lower the dificulty for initiating. I've never seen anything saying an ordeal could be used to increase a lab total.
The problem isn't with initiating the mystery, that is as easy as any major mystery. The problem is with the lab total for the actual becoming ritual that the character does after the initiation.

The answer is near to hand! :slight_smile: What you're looking for is at the top of the center column on page 93.

Wow, thanks. I have no idea how I missed that with all the times I've read that page.
Well that makes it much more possible for a mage to atleast have some scores in more than 2 arts.

Depending on the situation, I'd also be willing to have some other script elements, like quests, contribute to the total.