And, RARodger, they are paranoid, don't forget... 
So, PrimaDo ... uh ... BELLADonna, ever thought of playing a Tremere? 
We noticed. 
It takes two to fight, so I think we ought to look at the Quaesitors, too. What is their part in all of this?
How did your Tremere become a Quaesitor in the first place? The Guernicus wouldn't have bestowed that honor on her without a reason or if they thought she'd abuse it. They certainly wouldn't have done it if they thought she was a megalomaniacal tyrant who wanted to Rule the World. By the same token, however, the Guernicus had to have known that creating a Tremere Quaesitor would, er... create a Tremere Quaesitor. So, why did the Guernicus decide at one point that they needed an ally with an army and lots of political clout, and what caused the falling out between this Tremere and the other Quaesitors?
Anyway, for tragedy I prefer noble motives that cause people to do horrible things. As a consequence, I like the idea that your Tremere is trying to gain control of the Tribunal because she honestly thinks it would be in the best interests of everyone else if she ran the show.
Maybe there was some kind of Tribunal-wide crisis in recent history (20-30 years ago, or so) that the Guernicus found themselves unable to handle. Perhaps a couple of covenants are about to go to war against each other. Perhaps they already have. Who better to hang the miscreants from the nearest tree than the Tremere, and what better Tremere than one with a proven commitment to stability, etc.?
So, what would cause your Tremere to have a falling out with the Guernicus afterward?
Well, the Albigensian crusade won't happen for another fifteen years, but efforts to squelch the Cathars have already started by this time. Perhaps the Guernicus and the Tremere somehow end up on different sides of that incipient spat?
So, at the beginning of your campaign, your Tremere might be on semi-friendly terms with the Quaesitors. Then, when military action starts being threatened in a few years, they part company. The Tremere can see the armies coming and wants to take appropriate steps (or what she feels are the appropriate steps), but the Quaesitors won't let her. Now, she has a reason to move against the Quaesitors, since she thinks that by preventing her from doing what she wants, they endanger the whole Tribunal.
Some great points, ncl.
One that has been bugging me a bit: How does one become Preaco without giving up thier status as Quaesitor? More particularly, if this is a Tribunal where the Preaco is the oldest magus, how are they NOT the most senior Quesitor as well?
Could be that the Queasitors required her to give up her Queasitorial rights so that she COULD be Preaco and she resents "being treated like a criminal with their constant scrutiny."
Just a thought.
-K!
Hmmm...Tremere. Sensible... stable... dignity is of the utmost concern...
No I don't think I can dig those things up from even the farthest corner of my psyche.
I found this, though.
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article255.asp
I suppose either offices would be passed on to the next oldest magus. There would probably be Peripheral Code rulings covering this issue, with Tribunal variations. Considering the fact that there might not be a second Quaesitor in the Tribunal, which I believe is the case in Loch Leglean, or that he might be undesirably young, I guess that it is the office of Praeco that would be passed to the next oldest magus. It would also help present House Guernicus as benevolent, since they are ready to renounce to such a distinction. Also note that in some Tribunals, the Praeco might be elected, although it isn't the norm (so says WGRE).
Yup. it is cannon. The praeco is the oldest magus and the oldest Quaesitor is the head quaesitor. If they are the same, the role of quaesitor passes to the next oldest quaesitor magus.
Also, in cannon there is at least 1 quaesitor of each house at any giuven time (HoH:TL). The Guernicus are all quaesitores, but not all quaesitores are Guernicus. Few belong to other hoiuses, but some do.
Cheers,
Xavi
Hi,
I consider motivation to be an aspect of Ars Magica characters that always needs bolstering, even (especially!) for PCs. Real people accumulate knowledge and power for personal reasons, and these reasons drive character more than the powerz themselves.
Rather than ask why a Tremere might want to wrest a Tribunal away from a Guernicus, I might ask what underlying personal conflict this person (who happens to be a Tremere) has with that person, who happens to be a Guernicus. What does the Tremere want, at a personal level, for himself? In what ways does the Guernicus oppose him?
Revenge always works:
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A baron killed the Tremere's mundane family. Now that he is a powerful magus, the only thing between him and exacting vengeance is being convicted of interfering with mundanes at Tribunal, which won't happen if he controls it.
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The Guernicus made a mistake (deliberate?) in his youth, resulting in the death of the Tremere's familiar or parens.
But other motives can apply:
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The Tremere is a devout Christian (in the medieval mode) and Guernicus is a pagan or Jew. Or vice versa.
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They hated each other as apprentices. They hate each other still.
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The Tremere knows of an effort--perhaps a worthy effort!--that will require the power of an entire Tribunal. The Guernicus considers himself obligated to support the status quo.
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The Tremere believes that the Guernicus is of a lineage that participated in the Sundering.
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Both magi want to control the Tribunal, but only because some other party--a Tytalus, Diedne, diabolist, whatever--wants to foment conflict among magi, thereby to split and weaken the Tribunal. (But now two motives are required; one for the secret manipulator and another for the Tremere.)
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The Tremere believes the local Guernicus is screwing up in a big way, wants to protect the Tribunal, and will do whatever it takes.
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The prima of House Merinita is a real hottie, and said that she would never deign to sleep with a man who couldn't even control his own Tribunal...
Note that very little of this involves the actual power of having a Tribunal in one's pocket. And who cares? If he's a big time baddie, maybe he just needs to borrow a few artifacts and accumulate enough vis to summon the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man.
(Why would you want to control a Tribunal?)
Anyway,
Ken
Throw them a curveball. She has been present at and/or has had a vision of some great calamity to befall the tribunal unless she HAS that power. Or at the least she THINKS so... grins Anyone ever mention that Demons LOVE causing visions?
On one hand she thinks that she is sacrificing herself and her sensibilities for the greater good and might have those closest to her know this.. And they'll ALL think that they are fighting for something bigger than themselves. Now THAT makes fighting and defeating them quite a horse of a different color.
On the other hand if you go with the vision being a faux one planted by demonkind, you will get both that and her guiding quite a few souls on to hell. Including perhaps the PCs with a bit of manipulation.
It certainly was canon up to and including 4e, but not any more. On p.64 of HoH:TL it states:
It goes on to say that in most tribunals there are about 2-3 candidates for the position at any one time, and that it's rare for anyone to hold the post for more than three tribunal periods. I'd imagine there are exceptions to this, due to local traditions, demographics etc. For example it's hard to see how this system would work in the Rhine Tribunal, as GotF suggests there are only a handful of quaesitors, one who has suffered Final Twilight (Eule of Bjornaer) and another who is still a youngster (Tabanus of Guernicus).
Meh, whatever fits.
What kind of stories do you want to tell and what stories will your group enjoy?
She could be a villain because some member(s) of the players' covenant are illegitimate children she has a chip on her shoulder about.
Or maybe someone's parens was cruel to her and she wants revenge.
Maybe she made a deal with the devil to save a child/sibling/father/friend/lover/The Order (in her mind)?
The Guernicus is her mundane father and has turned to the dark side.
She know for shure that an imminent threat is coming(her information come from a powerfull elder tremere) and she must control the tribunal to face it. Unfortunately for her, this assignement is a top security question and even some fellow tremere doesnt know about it. She look evil for now but it's because you can't see the big picture yet.
It's up to you to decide if:
-the threat is real or not.
-the tremere are really the only people able to deal with it.
-The powerfull elder is in it for a personnal quest hidden from is other housemate and the Quaesitor is a puppet.
-what will happen if the PCs remove the futur quaesitor? Will they face the threat themselves?
-Many Tremere are conjugating effort in several tribunal to be ready for that special menace.
-It's her test to became an archmagus.
I like the redhead are evil or with a temper.
I have red hair myself...
-Bellysarius
You know, it's much more interesting if she has a realistic motivation besides "just evil," "lust for power," etc. Some ideas:
1 - She has had a vision that the Order is in terrible danger that will strike in ten years. She has to consolidate power by that time in order to prepare the Tribunal to defend itself. She's idealistic, but uses utterly Machiavellian ruthlessness and "end justifies the means" strategies.
2 - She is backed by a shadowy cabal of candidates, perhaps even a mystery cult, that wishes to control the Tribunal in order to secure a mystical site or resource, keep a rival group under control, or wishes to protect the Order (see 1 above).
3 - Well-liked and charismatic, she is heir to a dark secret that would undo her and possibly her House if uncovered; the characters stumble across clues to this secret that she had thought forever buried. The secret may not be personal to her, but might, for instance, detail unsavory details about House Tremere and its role in fomenting the Schism War.
4 - More outre: she is a Tytalus masquerading in deep cover as a Tremere, with the goal of rising as much as possible as a "respectable" member of the Order. She singles out the characters for a stealthy conflict game.
5 - She is in league with a mundane power that stands to gain if she can control the Order in the area and surreptitiously aid the mundane cabal. Perhaps she receives access to rare research or unusual materials or even vis, depending on the mundane power's reach and resources.
6 - Her pater/mater was undone by the Guernicus, and she is gaining power in order to exact revenge. Combine this with 3 and you might have her secretly having had an affair that produced a child, and that child has been kidnapped (motivation is held hostage) or killed (motivation is vengeance).
Mix a couple of these to get a more complex motivation. Spice to taste.