As an addendum to the above, the simplified view is that the spell can have you keep moving when it ends or stop when it ends, but the spell needs to specify. Those four (jumping, tossing) are all having the target keep moving. TME gives the other option.
This is useful. Some folks here quoted TME 107 - but no one quoted TME 106. I wasn't expecting two sidebars on the same topic, both outside the relevant section. This does take care of obstacles question. Part of me sighs that we have optional rules, and therefore, optional spells. It would probably have been too simple to publish rules, and let troupes make their own house rules than publish a collection of house rules.
It seems that we are talking about four different movement options here, not just two. Discontinuous teleportation is clear enough, but for continuous movement we have three.
- Instant movement from one point to another. There is nothing to say that this has to be a straight line. More reasonably, it is as the crow flies, and the crow knows to find an opening if a path exists. The spell may automatically be as smart as a crow.
- Superfast controlled travel, where you have to use finesse to control speed and direction. The faster you go, the more dangerous it is.
- Predefined trajectory, where you toss someone in a direction, and if they hit something, they hit it.
Frog's Legs could arguably fall under 3. The instant transport guidelines applies to 1; I do not really see them applying to 2 or 3. The word «transport» is too focused on the goal and too little on the way to get there.
WRT to the Fan Grimoire, it is worth having a brief preface explaining that kind of design decisions, making clear that it is a choice left to the troupe.
I proposed something along these lines for each TeFo, but it seems it did not get much traction...
I see this argument going on for a while, even discussing the meaning of "instantly" (IMO, any dictionary would provide a clear definition), proving - again - that there is many ways to interpret rules.
I personally sees the debate between super-fast movement and TP as a way to get around the many requisit TP could require. Paraphrasing somebody, more possibilities, richer setting.
However, there is no guideline on how to infer speed for super-fast movement - I say guidelines, not canonical example. And trying to infer speed by doing some math based on round duration and distance looks dodgy at best and open a whole can of worms about closed space, obstacles, Finesse, etc.
Since we - for the Fan Grimoire - don't want to create new guidelines, I would rather that we stick to guidelines only, but we open the opportunity for additional spells as preamble in the TeFo paragraph, possibly quoting some canonical spells.
We are discussing a very niche spell sets, so I will further elaborate my view on TP - and it is my personal view only.
In my saga, traveling in Mythic Europe is part of the adventure. I don't like shortcut that allows to easily bypass this part. If the players have a floating boat ? Great, that took some effort and is in itself a great story material, and it looks cool. This Levant mage has a flying carpet ? How flavorful! This Terram magus has a flying disk on it and added straps after a few painful experience ? Talk about learning by mistake! Mercere's portal are not fully hermetic ? yep, make sense and you need to go their and pay for their use.
This mage specialised in TP, with Rego affinity, puissant, and a focus on TP: great, he is one of his kind, dedicated a lot of resources (virtues and XP) and can sell his skill for covenant desperately looking to relocate or do a surprise attack.
Any mage can relatively easily cover large distance without too much specialisation or dedication ? Boooh! A lot of the points above loose their value. In fact, they would even become a liability, considering the time and vis required for these enchantments.
So I want for my Saga instant-TP & fast travel to be rare and a last minute resources to escape dire threat - yep, the mage manage to escape but only with his talisman and familiar, otherwise he is naked.
I could consider a dual system could suits me: either plenty of requisit for instant TP (thus requiring a highly specialised mage, due to high Rego Corpus with Animal, Terram and Vim minimum casting requisits - how many mage left their pouch of vis behind them ??? ), or high Finesse roll (like for Craft magic) for very fast travel. But I don't see a proper set of guideline for fast travel through ReCo, nor Finesse, so for now, it is out of my sagas.
In a nutshell, I don't want to trivialize long distance transport by giving more freebies to mage.
By making such travel mode more reachable for any 20-40 years out of apprenticeship, without specialization or dedication, its is loosing its value and uniqueness.
I agree. This is a big downside for the instant but continuous travel that we have adopted. This is also a point where I think RAW should have been more explicit and consistent. Why do some teleportation spells require finesse on arrival while others don't? I think all should. And it would be useful if they explicitly required casting requisites for clothes and talisman and whatever. Casting requisites have been downplayed in 5ed, and I find them easily forgotten.
So,
The only problem I have with instantaneous travel is that it runs against the setting as described. There is much less need for Redcaps and no need for more than one Tribunal to cover all ME if near-instant travel is readily available.
Star Wars has a similar problem: The outer rim isn't very outer if it's a quick hyperspace jump away from Alderaan or Coruscant.
Anyway,
Ken
The only problem of near-instant communication in the Order is trust! Groups of magi implicitly trusting each other are verrry rare - but those who exist can move themselves, their parcels and messages near-instantly between their strongholds.
The insufficiently trusting majority of magi needs to rely on slow, disciplined, intelligent and relatively harmless redcaps who don't breach Aegides and will react to dubious goods to carry and problems on the way reasonably. That is their raison d'ĂȘtre - not quick transfer of stuff.
For emergencies, many redcaps might teleport with devices, some even with spells - but they will rarely admit to it: all to preserve trust.
I agree, the need for trust is too high to allow anyone to just teleport in to a covenant's grounds, which is where the Redcaps shine.
I think the Redcaps have enough trust throughout the order that many of them will have 7 league stride boots and similar items. The trust is not enough to teleport direct to the inside of a covenant, but to the gates, for sure. I consider Redcaps will still be a lot faster than standard Medieval Europe transport.
Hi,
Or, teleport just outside the covenant grounds, and step up to the gate or front door.
EDIT: I suspect that pretty much the only time this amount of mistrust comes into play is in discussions of this kind. Thought experiment: See what happens if you run a story with players who have not read this thread, in which an NPC magus unknown to the PCs or known but has not yet had reason to interact with them shows up outside their covenant in the mood for conversation and maybe some exchange of information or goods.
Anyway,
Ken
Check again, once the first package with Hermetic spyware / a possessing demon / a curious faerie was delivered that way to the covenant's autocrat by the chatty NPC magus - because no player character magus cared to interrupt their highly optimized lab routine.
By the way, I took the liberty to add an intro paragraph for the ReCo section in the Fan Grimoire. Feel free to pitch in.
Just so you know, that is only a working document for the current section so that intro paragraph most likely won't be carried over. If you get general support for adding something like that from the editors though, I am sure Itzhak would include something like it in the final. He is reasonable and generally goes with what the editors overall recommend.
It is always easier to cut down than to realise too late that something was forgotten. So I have no issue to see it removed at some stage. Considering the amount of discussion on going on some topics, I believe it will be good to address some points.