Multi-House covenants?

I think Jerbiton was probably widespread from the outset: that is, I think that people who saw themselves as part of the group that House Jerbiton was the western arm of were part of the great Hellenic sphere, and likely lived in Hellenic communities throughout the world. Once the Order got itself together, I think there's some chance that most of the local mages knew where the Greek guy was, and so if they wanted to form one of these "covenant" things, they'd know to ask his opinion. One of the Primuses, rather later, makes it his business to move the entire House toward multi-house covenants.

House Criamon first spreads out to the rest of the world under Criamon's successor, who I think was a called Juliasta. She's the first Primus (non-Founder leading a House) so Criamon evangelism is an early thing. If they formed multihouse covenants...I'm not sure.

House Tremere doesn't get into multi-house covenants much until after the reconstruction period following the Schism, when they go all out to not look spooky.

There were more than 2, and you aren't counting the Antares.

More than two where? Loch Leglean most definitely had only one. That was half the hook of the book. GotF comments that the girl at Durenmar and Tabanus may be the only two in the whole Tribunal. Stonehenge, I only recall three. The presiding one at Blackthorn, Trutina (who wrote all those books in the SG screen) and one other. I don't recall many in Novgorod or the Levant either, but its been a while.

As far as I know, the only tribunals with a respectable number of Quaesitoris are the three with dedicated Quaesitor covenants: Rome, Alps, and Iberia. I don't have the Normandy Tribunal book yet, so I don't know about that one. But Thebes and Transylvania must have about 30 Quaesitors each to make the numbers work :stuck_out_tongue:

It's a conspiracy to keep an eye on the secretive Tremere. One in three Transsylvanian Tremere was secretly trained at Magvillus...

[quote="Vormaerin"]
More than two where? [\quote]

Sorry for being unclear: I meant in the Alps.

Remembewr though that most Tribunal books have spaces in them for unnamed covenants. Alps has space for at least two (Savoy and over in Carinthia).

Yeah, I know about the Alps. What I was trying to say is that it seems from the Tribunal books either a tribunal has a dedicated Quaesitor covenant or its severely shorthanded on Quaesitors.

And while most tribunals assume 1 or 2 other covenants, one is generally expected to be the PC covenant. Not usually a source of scads of Quaesitoris. So the other one is either a dedicated Quaesitor covenant (which is what I do in my Rhine saga) or there's still a serious shortage of Quaesitors in at least half the Tribunals.

There are in fact four Quaesitores detailed in GotF (and that book doesn't describe every magus in the Tribunal, leaving room for more), although two of them are Quaesitores from other Houses, and of those, one is "retired from official duties" and the other is "somewhat reluctant". Still, your overall characterisation of the Tribunal as being light in Quaesitor presence is broadly correct.

Yeah, but Tabanus' description states he and Winfrida are among the few (and perhaps the only two) members of House Guernicus in the Tribunal. So there's the point about having 50 or so magi undefined is kind of irrelevant. I suppose you could have yet more non Guernicus Quaesitors.

Anyway, its kind of off the thread topic. I was merely pointing out that the Quaesitors seem to be either extremely weak in a tribunal or have a House Covenant there. Not much middle ground in the examples.

I don't really mind the Quaesitor sideline as it's interesting in itself, but...

Reading through HoH: Societas it seems that one reason there may have been single-house covenants for some Houses early on is that oddly they are loosely affiliated groups of disparate lineages in the 9th century.

Although Flambeau is commonly depicted as a somewhat monomorphic house, under Apromor there was a drive to recruit non-Christian magi, particularly Pagan Mercurians but this could also imply Basque sorginak (cultists of the goddess Mari) and other native French and Italian hedge traditions that would seem out of keeping with the structure of the House in 1220. A "Flambeau" House covenant (in the sense of a covenant dedicated to the ideology of one House but perhaps containing a few members of other Houses eg Verditius, Mercere, Guernicus etc) would potentially have a great deal of diversity, as even though it would not be "multi-House" it would be "multi-tradition".

A similar argument could apply for Tytalus, Jerbiton (perhaps more homogenous than the others) and of course Ex Misc when it forms.

The argument that multi-House covenants would be needed for stability and growth breaks down under this, as the different lineages within the nascent Societas would provide any needed flexibility, although discord may be a counterbalancing issue.

For instance, I see merit in Timothy's suggestion that a group of like minded magi of the early Order in a particular region that had strong links with Hellenic culture might band together and join Jerbiton, not because of any strong similarity in philosophy to the Iconophiles, but because of shared culture.

Similarly, many of the early French and Spanish magi might join Tytalus and Flambeau respectively because that's who they were coerced/recruited by in their native area - any differences between the various lineages becoming blurred over the intervening centuries as say Flambeau lineages with particular aptitude for smithing discover House Verditius and shift to becoming members of that Mystery House, Tytalus magi with a mystical bent switch to becoming Criamon of the Path of Strife or Jerbiton magi with strong political bent have their apprentices accepted by magi Trianomae and thus move their original lineage into House Bonisagus.

Diffusion between the Societas seems even easier - some magi would naturally fall between the cracks between Flambeau and Jerbiton and Tytalus easily enough into another House even before the spread of Ex-Miscellanea beyond the Brittanian Tribunal and likewise, magi leaving the Mystery Cult Houses would seem more likely to fall into one of the Societas or Ex-Miscellanea as needed.

In some ways though, these Societas "House" covenants would be the ones most likely to attract Bonisagus, Verditius, Merinitia, Criamon and Bjornaer with particular interests and thus have the potential to evolve into the first multi-house covenants, unless the apprentices of these guests shifted due to the reasons above.

Cheers,

Lachie