Multiple covenant membership

Can a magus be a member of multiple covenants (obviously with those covenants' agreement)? I don't see why not, but maybe I'm missing some crucial ruling of the peripheral code...

There is not hard rule saying no, but it's going to be impossible under normal circumstances. Remember, every Mage in a covenant has to participate in the Aegis of the Hearth, and that's normally done by everyone on New Years Eve (serfs parma). First, because it's a good time to have a party, but also because it's a MAD situation. Any covenant that did it at a different time would be viewed with great suspicion, because they would be free to attack on New Years. So not only are you going to have to find a covenant marching to the beat of a different drummer, you would have to convince both covenants you aren't trying to start a war......

THe Alps covenants in a previous edition did it on Midsummer's Eve, because wandering around outside on New Year's Day in the Alps is just nutjobbery.

You can be a member of two covenants. Some of the Norman covenants have nested memberships as part of their feudal structure, I believe.

I don't believe you can, simply because you are swearing an oath to the covenant you're a part of. See the second line of the sample Charter in the back of Covenants: "I pledge my lifelong support and loyalty to the Covenant". Also, the normal Charter only allows membership to be extended to magi who "owe no allegiance nor fealty to any other covenant."

The Tribunal of the Greater Alps has Chapter Houses, which are technically all part of one covenant with several different locations. Normandy has Vassal covenants, but you are taking the oath of membership to the covenant, which in turn swears fealty to another covenant, so even then you're actually only a member of the one.

It may be possible to be a member of two (or more) covenants, but that is going to take a whole lot of convincing to get them to go along with it.

Definite ysmv, there. I've been in several sagas, and the majority of the covenants actually cast theirs on Mid-Summer's Day. One, I think, in Winter, two in Spring, and three in Summer, iirc.

Ah, Mr. Peregrine, I was working off of canon, where it states on p161 AM, "The Aegis is typically cast on the winter solstice, since magical auras can be slightly higher at that time, and the Aegis then lasts for the entire next year". I think most, if not all, covenants casting it at the same time works best, given the possibilities of Wizard's War and sabotage. You can Interfere with the casting of an Aegis, but you will have no protective Aegis to run to....

Having never been a member of a single covenant using the "standard" oath from covenants, I'd say sure - If they'll both (all?) let you.

There's no formal part of the code refering in anyway to covenants.
HoH: TL p. 49 indicates that you must have a official 'home tribunal' but that's about it.
Same page sort-of indicates you do not have to be a member of the tribunal in which the (a) covenant resides to be a member of said covenant(-s).

There's nothing to forbid it - it's just not very common, and you're much more likely to gain status of 'valued friend and guest' than as a full member of several covenants.

There is clearly no clear rule here, so this is a "your saga may vary" area - and i'd suggest also a "your Tribunal may vary" scenario, as some tribunal's peripheral code may explicitly forbid it. However, I believe there are sanctum-related peripheral code rulings to the effect that you can only have one sanctum at any one time. So while you can be a member of several covenants, only one can really be your "home base" in many respects, especially if you use the laboratory personalization rules from the Covenants book or similarly invest time and effort in your laboratory. Also, covenants wouldn't like such double loyalties. So - I think multiple covenant status would be rare, but not necessarily illegal.

There is clearly no clear rule here, so this is a "your saga may vary" area - and i'd suggest also a "your Tribunal may vary" scenario, as some tribunal's peripheral code may explicitly forbid it. However, I believe there are sanctum-related peripheral code rulings to the effect that you can only have one sanctum at any one time. So while you can be a member of several covenants, only one can really be your "home base" in many respects, especially if you use the laboratory personalization rules from the Covenants book or similarly invest time and effort in your laboratory. Also, covenants wouldn't like such double loyalties. So - I think multiple covenant status would be rare, but not necessarily illegal.

I agree with most of this, though I note that the only rule I've seen regarding multiple sanctii, was in the peripheral code - and published in an earlier edition.

Yes, there should be restrictions on having multiple sanctii, but various tribunals might well not agree on these, and even then it is as likely that such rules would be "1 sanctum per tribunal" as "1 sanctum total".
I could more easily see a ruling along the lines of "Only officially registered residents of the tribunal have the right to establish a sanctum within the tribunal" but even that one I'm less than convinced of. Look at the huge differences between eg Rhine and Normandy. Are they likely to have the same rules about sanctii?

In practise, because it is possible to move your sanctum, it is very tricky to tell whether or not a magus has multiple places marked as his sanctum at the same time. Which doesn't mean that there can't be a rule against the practise --- just it is tricky to enforce. But that is OK, it is an in-character problem for Quaesitors, etc.

I believe the persona section in HoH Societies mentions the possibility of having a magus persona, and this persona belonging to another covenant.

It's mentioned that all members of Exspectatio are also members of Fudarus, and in fact it's a maga of Exspectatio who casts AotH in Fudarus - although there are special circumstances involves. A few of the smaller vassals, particularly when they're the former site of a covenant that moved, don't appear to have permanent members. This would likely make the AotH situation rather complex but offhand I don't see anything discussing this matter.

Presumably in the Normandy tribunal the oaths you take to join a covenant would preclude joining one belonging to another liege. Even if this wasn't explicit chances are your obligations would clash - one can't participate in the tourney for multiple covenants and I doubt one would excuse you so you could participate with a rival.

True, but I don't think that would be considered very legal. The point of the persona is that nobody* knows both persona are actually the same magus.

  • for certain values of nobody.

Exactly!

I can't quote the exact page, but the Lion and the Lily explicitly states that some of its magi enter the tourney with teams other than their covenants'.

Don't know if it is current canon, but in older books (for sure) there was a peripheral code case that dealt with multiple sanctums. A magus (I think it was jerbiton) used to travel and declare ANY room where hw was spending more than an hour as his sanctum(0r maybe it was spending the night there). It was declared that you could not change sanctum more than once per season, IIRC.

I think that you can be part of several covenants. This just causes A LOT of problems. That means a lot of stories, conflicting loyalties and all that fun mess :slight_smile: If that makes for a cool story, allow it.

Cheers
Xavi

True, and most Tytalus magi find a lot of room between "frowned upon" and "actually illegal." :slight_smile:

Ah, it's at the bottom of the second paragraph. It would still be a tricky situation to pull off unless the Tytalus and/or their persona had a good reason not to participate.

"Hi, I'm Magnus of Tytalus. I'm interested in joining your covenant, but I compete in the Tournament with a team of my Housemates. Take it or leave it." Said Tytalus is on a team that, in this game world, regularly places quite high in the rankings while the covenant as a whole places rather poorly. Perhaps the covenant is small, and not interested in the tournament, and their points only get them a pittance? Or they compete for the Siege of Alms and the Tytalus would push them outside that range due to his spectacular placing in other events? I think he would still count for the point of the covenant as far as magi who are members. Coenobium, which this team of Tytali are, have to stake 5 pawns of vis per member, and only get 1 point for the team as a whole. If all the members of the team are also members of a covenant, I might be inclined to say that the coenobium doesn't get any points, which, I think, would suit a team of Tytali just fine.