Mundane Familiars

[Marko_Markoko]

@Ovarwa

(...) I did notice that you consider binding a familiar as creating a bond akin to marriage, a union of equals, and I suspect that many magi would not see it so:

• In ME, marriage is often considered a union of not-quite-equals.
• Some magi might love and cherish their familiars, yet see them as subordinates. Magi who believe in hierarchies - such as Tremere - and even familiars themselves - such as wolves! - would consider this obvious and right.
• A magus who binds a very powerful familiar might see himself as an equal, or even a subordinate or supplicant! Magi who bind Aspects of powerful, even primordial, daemons might fall into this category, as might magi with draconic or demonic familiars.
• A Merinita binding a Faerie familiar might see the relationship as among equals, yes, but as a precisely negotiated business transaction!

I think there is much to be gained by concentrating on what the rules are rather than on what they mean, to allow wild divergence of meaning across the Order... and to allow conflict among magi with different perspectives. (Think of what a Tremere would think of a magus who worshiped his familiar, or what a Tytalus would think of a Tremere who enslaved his familiar, etc...)

Your counter examples actually reinforce the marriage metaphor. Remember, magi have many examples of marriage from history and myth to draw upon.
but still, I am fully aware the whole introduction part is just fluff. I like to write things as whole and complete. Still, skip all of that and just read the meaty part in the second half.

[Ovarwa]

@Marko Markoko

@Ovarwa

(...) I did notice that you consider binding a familiar as creating a bond akin to marriage, a union of equals, and I suspect that many magi would not see it so:

• In ME, marriage is often considered a union of not-quite-equals.
• Some magi might love and cherish their familiars, yet see them as subordinates. Magi who believe in hierarchies - such as Tremere - and even familiars themselves - such as wolves! - would consider this obvious and right.
• A magus who binds a very powerful familiar might see himself as an equal, or even a subordinate or supplicant! Magi who bind Aspects of powerful, even primordial, daemons might fall into this category, as might magi with draconic or demonic familiars.
• A Merinita binding a Faerie familiar might see the relationship as among equals, yes, but as a precisely negotiated business transaction!

I think there is much to be gained by concentrating on what the rules are rather than on what they mean, to allow wild divergence of meaning across the Order... and to allow conflict among magi with different perspectives. (Think of what a Tremere would think of a magus who worshiped his familiar, or what a Tytalus would think of a Tremere who enslaved his familiar, etc...)

Your counter examples actually reinforce the marriage metaphor. Remember, magi have many examples of marriage from history and myth to draw upon.
but still, I am fully aware the whole introduction part is just fluff. I like to write things as whole and complete. Still, skip all of that and just read the meaty part in the second half.

grin If you're not ok with a Muslim magus having four familiars, then marriage isn't quite right!

[Jonathan.Link]

@Ovarwa

grin If you're not ok with a Muslim magus having four familiars, then marriage isn't quite right!

Why only four?

[Ovarwa]

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
—Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), Ayah 3

[Xavi]

I just imagined a crusader magus with a pig familiar only to annoy the sahir members of the OoH in the Levant

[silveroak]

I could see a minor virtue that allows for multiple familiars, but only for cultures which do not believe in singular marriage...

[Marko_Markoko]

I can imagine a familiar that is a group of creatures, like a wolf pack. Or my own herd of cats. Or what if a single Familiar had multiple magi? Like, say, maybe a Daimon?

[Ezechiel3571]

If you think of binding a group of creatures, think about a swarm !
It would be a nice concept to have a magus with a bee swarm as familiar or an ants colony.

In a old campaign (2nd ed !), my magus was a Beast master who developped a 4th type of cord, the Heart Cord (after the gold, silver and bronze one). It allowed him to bind a number of familiar equal to the Heart Cord value. He used it to bind a couple of faerie dragons. It was mostly a "cool look" thingy since benefits were limited - yes you could send the familiars in different places and be able to see through their sense, but otherwise, there was no other tangible benefits, there was no stacking of boni. It was one of the things he developped to claim his Archmagus title.

[maine75man]

@Ezechiel357

If you think of binding a group of creatures, think about a swarm !
It would be a nice concept to have a magus with a bee swarm as familiar or an ants colony.

In a old campaign (2nd ed !), my magus was a Beast master who developped a 4th type of cord, the Heart Cord (after the gold, silver and bronze one). It allowed him to bind a number of familiar equal to the Heart Cord value. He used it to bind a couple of faerie dragons. It was mostly a "cool look" thingy since benefits were limited - yes you could send the familiars in different places and be able to see through their sense, but otherwise, there was no other tangible benefits, there was no stacking of boni. It was one of the things he developped to claim his Archmagus title.

I had a player in my last Saga take a King of Bees as a famlier. (Mythic Bees are ruled by a King not a Queen) While the Magi wasn't "bound" to the swarm I Generally assumed the King's subjects came with the package.

[Marko_Markoko]

So I think my marriage metaphor is a valid one

And maybe it is the magus who plays the role of bride

[Ovarwa]

@Marko Markoko

So I think my marriage metaphor is a valid one

And maybe it is the magus who plays the role of bride

Oh, yeah, like you're gonna survive the inevitable WW you get after calling that macho Flambeau magus a bride!

I think the metaphor is valid... for some magi.

[Ovarwa]

@Marko Markoko

I can imagine a familiar that is a group of creatures, like a wolf pack. Or my own herd of cats. Or what if a single Familiar had multiple magi? Like, say, maybe a Daimon?

Each magus does get a different Aspect.

(My maga, Deborah, in an abortive online saga here in which we both had played, had a very powerful Spirit of Creepy Crawly Creatures as her familiar, and was the center of massive swarms of creatures. My Ars Magica version of a Shadowrun Insect Shaman /2. I don't think either Deborah or the spirit thought of their relationship as marriage, FWIW...)

[Ovarwa]

@maine75man

@Ezechiel357

If you think of binding a group of creatures, think about a swarm !
It would be a nice concept to have a magus with a bee swarm as familiar or an ants colony.

In a old campaign (2nd ed !), my magus was a Beast master who developped a 4th type of cord, the Heart Cord (after the gold, silver and bronze one). It allowed him to bind a number of familiar equal to the Heart Cord value. He used it to bind a couple of faerie dragons. It was mostly a "cool look" thingy since benefits were limited - yes you could send the familiars in different places and be able to see through their sense, but otherwise, there was no other tangible benefits, there was no stacking of boni. It was one of the things he developped to claim his Archmagus title.

I had a player in my last Saga take a King of Bees as a famlier. (Mythic Bees are ruled by a King not a Queen) While the Magi wasn't "bound" to the swarm I Generally assumed the King's subjects came with the package.

Yeah; the whole "hive mind" thing is rather modern.

[Ovarwa]

@Xavi

I just imagined a crusader magus with a pig familiar only to annoy the sahir members of the OoH in the Levant

grin

Oh, yeah. One Tytalus has a pig familiar, another has a dog, and the third is a Bjornaer with a Boar Heartbeast, and they start a covenant in the Levant. The Bjornaer doesn't understand why the locals so revile them, or why the Tytali are grinning so much.

[Xavi]

Now I think I have to use that in the Andorra saga...