Ooooh, lively discussions! It ain't new, but it's always fun to read. Holy muskellunges, that's a burst of posts. Happy New Year's all.
Furion: I'd agree that anything simplistically dualistic (i.e. Pagan vs. Christian) would be too much like an olde-tyme AD&D dungeon crawl and much more fun if you keep throwing in as many other parameters of real Europe as the troupe and guides could reasonably handle (Latin/Germanic political heritages; growth of mercantilism vis-a-vis historic and/or mythic Europe; etc.). But I am not the greatest of storytellers and writers so I'm only going so far anyway. ; ) And anything "pure" isn't going to swim too well in the ol' heterogenous and chaotic waters of stories that emulate real life and history, anyway.
Cisalpine? Sweet, I had to look that one up and learn it. I have faaar to go in filling in my knowledge of European history. I threw out suppression and bias but as possibilities (and story devices), but misconceptions and prejudices are all right in there, too. Gradual conceptualization of 'the Other' (i.e. us and them) for me is about evolving forms of -isms, crudely or refined, "good" or "bad", whether its racism, supremacism (of varying sorts), orthodoxy-ism (I jest) and more as far as tragedies go (and that, of course changes with time and culture) - but I'd like to understand more of what your talking of there. What I ain't trying to do is put the 20th century crucible of developing individual and collective human rights superimposed on a simulation of very historic mythic Europe. BUT I'd love to use the Hermetic order and mythic Europe as a matrix for pushing grander events, philosophies, thaumaturgical/theurgical developments and paradigms in the saga/campaign towards our contemporaneous real-life world. Just for fun.
As an aside, it could also be fun if a few stories had a light 'Doctor Who'-esque approach (and I use the term lightly with all due respect for other scientific and historic fiction) to a storyline that was in the past and the consequent adventure with the protagonist (our troupe's magi) was the reason why something in future world history developed from it (future being post 12th century - in case I'm losing myself and others).
In an abstract: I'd want to see a couple of characters in the position as if they were Jews (and they could be too) on the run from a lethal anti-semitic Pogrom, but for House Diedne and/or as pagan-indigenous where blood and heritage vies with the Hermetic Code. That's already setup with the history of the Order, but the storytelling, roleplaying and history can be even richer given what you and I and others are talking about.
-----
Timothy - lol! on race, sex, class esp. if that was at the exception of other factors (was it post-modernist?), but I'm all for including it alongside the economics and geopolitics of vis-extraction and grand tribunals.
-----
And I'm groovin' with the feel and tenor of Ken's posts. And any Crusade-like cataclysmic decimation involving the Order can always be swept under a regio if folks wanted to keep the mundane landscape looking untouched - regio ex machina .
-----
I'm fascinated by how seemingly many from Western civ (from real elementary school students to Ars Magica players) are very seismic (culturally-speaking) on sacrifice (not necessarily emotionally) - especially with genocides, Inquisitions and Romanesque- and other total wars and empires as being much bigger rocks in the little ol' pond of world history and culture. Mayhaps it is some residual baggage of our Western ways? We've all got some archaic ways that make our pasts all too damn interesting. : )
that's my 8 bits anyway, (a weaker dollar on the Euro )
Cliff
p.s. Anyone know if there are any open sagas - as well as open by design and open co-storyguiding - or anyone open to starting a saga? Is it easy enough to start one on the pbem sections? I'm still realllll new to the Ars Magica mechanic although I've been around it over the period of several years.