Mysteries no longer "Coming Soon"?

Oooh.. You tease! :slight_smile:
You heard anything? You know somebody who knows, I bet you do! So.... tell us!!!!
Actually warning me of impending shock is like telling a four year old: 'watch out! I'm gonna tickle you.'
Oohh weeeeee ... :smiley:

Delayed again :cry:
I'm looking forward to this book if for no other reason than CJ has told me that there is something in it that I will appreciate, but of course hasn't (and can't because of NDA) told me what.

From John on the Atlas front page:

Mysteries Delayed

You may have noticed that The Mysteries Revised Edition has slipped off the "coming soon" list in the left sidebar here on our front page. I am sorry to report that the project has indeed encountered further delays. We were facing the question of whether to forge ahead with both TMRE and January's Covenants book simultaneously (the plan being to print them together), or move Covenants ahead on its original schedule (it's on time and going smooth so far...knock on wood) and let TMRE slip again. In the end, we decided to go with one on-time book and one late, rather than two late books.

So the long and the short of it is...Covenants is expected to go to press very soon (as in, within the next week) and should be printed and in our warehouse before the end of January; The Mysteries Revised Edition is tentatively expected to go to press along with Houses of Hermes: Mystery Cults, for release in April.

ARRRRGGGG!

:smiling_imp:

Patience is a virtue....
Sadly one I did not spend points on in character creation...

:smiley:

That said, I am glad that Atlas is taking the necessary time to get the book 'right'
High quality late, is much better than poor quality on time.

Though high quality on time would be less strain on me as I eagerly await Mysteries...

Ed C

Arrgh April....

But for most people Mysteries revised and HoH: Mystery Cults will arrive on the same day. I predict that in late April the Berk list will be up over 100 posts a day for a few weeks.

Greetnings and happy to be on these boards. While Covenants has been of the excellent quality that earmarks 5th Ed., what I'm really fretting to get is the two Mysteries-related (Revised and Cults) book, since they are really necessary to fully structure so many character concepts. Could please someone give me some update about the publishing schedule state of Mysteries Revised and Mystery Cults ? Does it still looks like both of these books will hit stores in April, more or less together ? It would be so nifty since they are in so many ways the two halves of the same topic.

the last timeI spoke with anyone from Atlas (over a month ago) they were both on track. We haven't heard anything different since then. I think that we'll see them in April but if somthing would have delayed them I wouldn't be the first to hear about it.

Ah, so may it be assumed that the problems that caused a six-months delay with Mysteries have been solved by now ? It would be really a shame if Mysteries would miss the conjunction with Mystery Cults as well, since I expect both books to be very tightly interwined: e.g. I expect theurgists rules from Mysteries to be necessary to fully define Criamon (or Merinita) mysteries as well.

I guess I'll keep being a tad suspicious till I see MR back in the pipeline with the TBA tage removed. Even if seeing it mentioned in retailers catalog is a little reassuring. retailers are somehow more dangerous to let down that humble fans :wink:

Excited ++

I am very sad (and more than a bit annoyed) to verify that my paranoia has been showed to be intuition yet again. Now, I know that having a late but good quality book is far better than a rushed and crappy one, but I really think that further extending a six-months delay is definitely beyond the boundaries of the acceptable (at least, it would likely be a serious reason of worry for being blackballed in my line of work) and straining the patience of at least this fan and customer.

If it is not yet possible to estabilish a tentative but definitive schedule, I'd at last appreciate a honest disclosure about the causes of such a huge delay, especially taking into account that as it says the name, Mysteries Revised should be a revision of existing material, not a complete rewrite from scrap and blank page. If Covenants, True Lineages, and Mystery Cults, which are or are said to be near-complete rewrites, have been on schedule, I really fail to see reasons for such a huge delay, with no end yet in sight. Has some author being kidnapped, been reactivated from the Reserve for a tour of duty overseas, or fighting a life threatening disease :angry:

Or at least concoct and release some provisional guidelines about how to use Mysteries 4th ed. material for ArM 5. An handful of pages, about adjusting Mysteries rules for ArM 5, to be released at the same time with Mystery Cults, as a stopgap measure until our precious authors are finally, eventually able to overcome their creative or personal crises or whatever and get the job done at last.

Even the more so, because I'm strongly suspicious that since MC was originally planned to be released six months after MR, MC won't include the full rules to play House Mysteries and will refer to a yet-unexistent book :imp:

If Mysteries Revised isn't going to be in time for combined release with RoP: Infernal, either, I'm definitely of the opinion that other, more reliable, authors should be picked.

I'm sad and sorry for being this bitter in my first posts on this forum, but MR was one of my most eagerly awaited books in the whole ArM 5 line (the other is MC), and ever-escalating delay is really grating on my nerves. I'm prepared to understand a sensible reason for the delay, but I'd really appreciate to hear about it, and some measure to lessen the consequences of the delay, such as, as I said, something like Design Notes, or the Book of Mundane Beasts, some patched general guideline to use Mysteries for 5th Ed until the book is done.

The delay to Mysteries Revised is not directly the authors' fault. They finished and submitted the draft on time, despite the fact that it turned out to be necessary to do a complete rewrite rather than a revision.

Final proofreading and layout turned out to be the killer step. Capitalisation and game conventions were not as consistently applied as would be ideal; I've increased the emphasis on the importance of this in my advice to writers, now. Things have also been held up by the fact that the book is currently on its third proofreader, as the two previous people had to abandon it so that other work didn't get behind. Since every new person has had to start over from the beginning, that's slowed things down.

You will actually get part of TMRE in HoH:MC. The plan was always for the books to be independent, so the first chapter of HoH:MC includes all the necessary general rules for Mysteries. We think. The playtesters thought so, too. (There are a few Mysteries from TMRE referenced in MC, but they are peripheral to the Houses; the main Mystery paths are fully detailed in MC.)

We're really sorry about the delay; I was really hoping that it would be out with MC (and with Covenants, and on time). However, once a book gets cursed, you learn not to make predictions about release dates.

Just a curious question:

You have two (or more) general lines of material.

  1. House developement
  2. General rules developement (Covenants)
  3. Background rules (Divine etc)

Of these lines of products, why did you choose to develope the least important groups first?
I say this because there are plenty of rules for Covenant developement. Game that are running don't NEED anymore rules to continue doing so. The Divine book adds some interesting things, but doesn't help any character that is currently being played. (It does help with additional material) You did come out with the True Lineages book, which was an awesome step in the right direction. This helped a great part of the game develope their characters further. Since fifth edition is new, its important to help out the characters now, and not later (before characters are too developed). The problem I see is that the rest of the Houses were left to hang. Its kind of like serving dessert before the main meal.

:blush:

Differing opinions on what is important, basically. Details on the realms strike me as at least as important as House-based material, and other books provide material for companions, who are just as much characters as the magi. If we'd done all of the House books first, there would have been nine months with no material usable for more than half of the characters in a typical saga.

Yeah, I disagree. I think that they've made the right call. True Lineages was a necessity. It explained the workings of the Order as a whole in a way that I don't think had been done before. Likewise, the Dominion is pervasive in Mythic Europe and I was greatful for a solid understanding of how I could use it in my game. Fairies and Demons and Magical creatures... I have other sources of them that I can (and have) fit in easily. But personally I had no idea what a Divine regio should look or feel like.

Of course I would like it all to come out at once and immediately, but the decisions Atlas has made makes sense to me at least.

I think TMRE is the book I am most looking forward to, with HoH:MC a close second. But I much rather have a better book than one on time. Even with such long delay. That said, my issues with ArM books have hardly been with proofreading, unless the latter includes making sure the rules are written clearly and consistently, the examples don't contradict the text, and so on. Frankly, capitalization and so on are not as important to me as clear and consistent rules which I have found to be my main problem with ArM rules. (I occasionally disagree with a certain rule, but that's to be expected.)

Atlas' line seems to me to be well designed. It started brilliantly with the core rules, an example adventure, and an example tribunal/saga. HoH:TL was essential to detail the workings of the Order (Guernicus). RoP:TD I think is also essential given the prevelance of the Divine in the setting, even if I was not enthralled by the work. Covenants, Mystery Cults, and The Mysteries are IMO more standard "splatbooks" and it was right to delay them in favor of more fundumental stuff.
The only point where I would criticize the line is that I think Faeries is nearly as essential as The Divine, and should be published shortly thereafter (perhaps in place of Covenants). I think also the addition of more SG-supporting titles, such as Faerie Tales or an adventure, is missing (although I see Realm books as largely filling a similar role).

Yair

Opinions may vary - alot.

Myself I've found Covenants to be second only to the core rules in importance, followed again by True Linages and GotF. Due to the focus of our saga, the Divine has been of lesser importance, and I suspect that the Mysteries will be only slightly more important to us than that. Looking much forward to seeing what Mystery Cults can bring to our game however:)

Dave: I understand your position and agree that you have to make SOME choice as to what gets made first...but as stated I disagree with the order. I think its much more important to give the various houses all their options before putting out, say, the Divine book.

YR7-

You would not say that if three quarters of your group were included in the unpublished book...IMO
:wink:

I don't see the rules for expanding a mages lab to be more important than expanding the rules for the magi...
Kind of like putting the cart before the horse.

What it comes down to is this...
Covenants: SG book. players don't need it.
Divine: SG book. players don't need it

True Lineages: Players book. Finishes the Houses listed in it. Helps the SG.
Mysteries: Players book. SG book. Again it finishes the house listed in it.

From a business perspective, I would think it more profitable to put out a book that is more useful to EVERYONE, than just some of the community. (Each game has roughly one SG and say four players. Sell one book or four?)
After thats done, you could put out the book that fills holes. (No I don't see the other Houses as 'holes')
:confused:

Every magus has a lab, only a (in my experience small) percentage of them will initiate in a mystery cult.

Players are the ones who need the lab personalization, players are the ones who have characters collecting and making books and players are the ones who have the characters creating and administating the covenant. I don't see anything in covenants that is for the storyguide.

Have you forgotten that Ars magica is set up to be a rotating GM game. I've had some really good games playing in this fasion the player/gm split really isn't there for a great number of groups (I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't there for most groups)

True lineages has material on tribunals, hermetic law, and the redcap network. It is very much a storyguide book.

I think your ratio of SG to players is off.

Even without SG input but simply because of the characters that were played every game (and by game I mean saga not session) in my experience has dealt with the divine, every game in my experience has dealt with the aspects of the order presented in true lineages, every game has touched on material that is dealt with in covenants (and not just one aspect of it, money, books, sanctums and labs have come up in every game, and loyalty has come up with great frequency.)

Mystery cults and mysteries have not (granted that they weren't introduced until 2000 (?) or so). I've only ever had two characters who underwent mystery initiation in a game.

The three books that aren't universally useful that Atlas has published for fifth are GotF, Fallen Fane, and the Broken Covenant of Caelibas. I do think that as an inticement for new players it behooves Atlas to keep at least one adventure and one tribunal book in stock so that anyone can grab the core rules the tribunal book and the adventure and be set for as long as they wish to play.