Mythic Europe's Jewry

As a player of a Jewish Tremere points down at the play-by-posts, I've been hunting through my admittedly limited set of sourcebooks for information on the Jews of Mythic Europe. Are they, as was commonly supposed, a race of misguided diabolists who only think they're worshiping God, or as people of the Book, a part of the Dominion? What's the aura in a Synagogue? Can you raise a Jewish corpse through necromancy?

Where (if anywhere) is this information?

RoP Divine has a chapter on Judaism.
Essentially the core background is that all of the people of the book are broadly right as God overlooks the little mistakes they all make .

You can raise any corpse through necromancy it is just the spirits and souls god protects. Having said that Hewish spirits seem more accessible for a while after death given different traditions than the christian ones.

A Synagogue has a comparable divine aura to a church

RoP-Divine will answer many questions. Yes, they are divine and people of the book. A Jew given a proper burial can be animated or summoned, as can a Christian or Muslim. I would also say it wasn't commonly supposed that they were misguided dialorists. They were persecuted, yes, but in some parts of Europe they were also very influential (parts of Spain and Germany for example).

Get the 4t edition supplament Khaballa. Heck, even I don't have that one. Read it though.

RoP:The Divine. Grab it. The main three monotheistic religions are all parts of the Dominion.

Especially RoP:tD page 128 would be relevant for you. It has an inset called "Jewish Magi". And there's a whole chapter devoted to Mythic Judaism.

Well the way it seems to have been handled differs quite alot, you can either handle it like islam and just make it another dominion variant and pretty much drop most of the mythic parts, or you can do as with "pagans" and then yeah your description and probably more still of the myths and superstitions about jews is correct and should be included.

But ive always been rather miffed at the way "mythic europe" only adheres to "christian" mythic europe and putting "pagan" deities as "fakes". Its a bit too selective and far to restrictive for my preference.

But in the end, if you want jews in your campaign to be based on the myths and superstitions of christian Europe, then go for it, if you want them to be "just another" dominion, go for it. Or maybe just take a middle way? Either way its your campaign.

I will read up on it tonight for you Muttonbone.

I've got the 4th ed book Kabbalah. I found that book very interesting. Lots of stuff on both mundane Jewish life, as well as the mythic, judaic magic.
I also own ROP:tD, but haven't read it in detail. I know it contains lots and lots of everything, but don't know whether it has any new takes, or evencontradicts the 4the d supplement.

There is plenty of Jewish Mythic elements that can be worthwhile pursuing, even if you go with the Dominion option. RoP:D explains a LOT about the actual Jewish religion, and provides a surprising large range of possibilities regarding Mythic elements - Golems, a Jewish Library, crafting amulets, Jewish names and flavor for the more general Divine Methods & Powers, and several Mythic Companions or other ways of representing Jewish mystics. Kabbalah (for Fourth Edition) provides more details and a few more Mythic elements, but actually much of its content is subsumed in RoP:D; I would recommend it, however, if you really want to delve into Jewish mysticism.

I'm not troubled by it. Especially given that I consider the old pagan gods to be the true god, and the Divine to be an upstart otherworldly element. Kinda like Cthulhu. :wink:

Oh sure, but it also means you´re "deselecting" the inclusion on some "mythical" parts based on belief at the time.
To some degree it also makes it slightly "yet another of those dominion" things. Not saying its same old same old as the others, but it still draws a bit much in that direction.

But as i said, if thats what the GM in question wants, his call as always!

Oh yeah that reminds me, has anyone ever tried to make a gameversion for the golem a´la nature? Ardsheal iirc is the name used in a book by mmm Terry Brooks i think it was(the series that begins with the book "Magic kingdom for sale: SOLD!", seen it elsewhere as well but cant recall what it was called then.

Yeah i have that for 4th, but never really used it very well, its a while ago so i dont quite remember but we had problems placing it in campaigns for some reason so with a few excepted parts taken separately it didnt get much use.
I know someone still has the notes about it but its probably not me(i think...), but i really dont recall properly.

Hehehe, good solution. We handled it as some jealous gods(christian, islamic and jewish one each, but with each of those dominions still beneficial to the believers of the other ones, but in 100% competition and outright hostility with each other) not wanting to allow humans any power outside its control, unlike other, more already established gods(giving magic aura).
End result of that actually gets fun, as we also added some faerie deities. So, complete spectrum of divinities, all bickering with each other like children in a sandbox. :laughing:

The Divine war! Chapter 1:
-Thats MINE!
-No it isnt!
-Yes it IS!
-Hey! Give that BACK!!!


In my (admittedly limited) experience, a divine war somewhat takes away from Ars Magica's core feel, bringing it closer to - dare I say it - Dungeons and Dragons. Call me a history nut, but I like my Mythic Europe to stay relatively historically accurate, and as a scholar of Medieval Christianity, that's the realm I feel most comfortable with leaving as it was.

So, did the Jews have a Dominion or Infernal aura in real history ? :wink:

I don't like staying overly historic. Histroy is fun for background and to learn stuff, but it's just as fun to learn about myths and beliefs and I don't consider it non-ArM in the least to have wars between gods or Infernal Jews. [Although I'd personally be somewhat disgusted in the latter, being a (Secular) Jew, I realie it's only a game...]

This is my take on it...

from a Mythic perspective.

The Isrealites (Jews) are indeed the chosen people of God, be they right or wrong, he has a purpose and a plan for his people that he made promises too. Thus they are covered by the Divine.

The Cristians follow the true light, but they do so in a confused fashion often times. Still, Chist was indeed the messiah, and thus the children of his flock are protected by the Divine.

The Moslems are the Ishmaelites, descended from Arahams first sone that he had with the bondswoman Hagar. God made a promise to Ishmael that his descendants would be powerful and prosperous. God has his way and his plan, thus the Moslems are also protected bby the divine.

Not other religons though. Only Abbrahmic faiths have the Diminion in sagas I run.

As far as Infernal Jews, well, there are also Satannic Christians and all kinds of corruption. The butchered child case from England, the Albigensian Heretics, some example from Islam (but I am admiteddly ignorant about Islam, and any one sect I point to as being the Infernal option would probably wind up insulting many people because I ignorantly chose the wrong one). All three faiths have the same devil, and old Nick wants to corrupt all of them.