negating the effect of the Gift

Games Discussion Ars Magica
42

Our game has 2 gift-suppressing effects. One we started with, and is a curiosity of the interaction of our regio and our aegis: the effects of the gift are not felt within the aegis. This was part of the premise of our covenant, to permit certain interactions with the university of cambridge. Not helpful for your campaign however.

The second is from Bath - specifically an underground set of baths directly fed from the great engine of Bladud. I gave the baths there three effects: suppress the gift, suppress lycanthropy and cure disease. This has been discovered by the party and used as an insight for further research.

We agree that "suppressing" the gift must weaken it, so much so that one character who had dwelt too long at our covenant had their gift suppressed entirely. Therefore, the insight our criamon with focus "seeing beyond the mundane" had (and after some ordeals for our degifted character) was to recreate the great fermenting engine, but in reverse: baths which when bathed in make the gift more blatant. After adventures to secure the mythic salts...

Our magi created this new set of baths, which allowed our previously degifted character to rediscover his gifts. To take advantage of the gift suppression effect, one must balance it with the gift worsening effect of the new set of baths to avoid losing ones gift.

However, we also wanted a systematic explanation of King Bladud's engines and their magic, so we can recreate new baths. This line of discovery will be through a mystery cult dedicated to Aqua Sulis.

Basically the core things we have decided upon about the engines, is that the 7 mythic salts determine the effects of an engine, which confers its powers to the waters it ferments. The 7 mythic salts correspond to the 7 astrological planets, of which 3 are primary (and hence determine the effect), with the topic of the effect (e.g. Health/Disease for Sun, The Gift for Mercury, Lycanthropy for Moon) and the expression (suppress, embolden, not sure yet) determined by the other 4, the order the salts are added, the vessels etc.

So when they "recreated" the engine, the primary salts and the topics were unchanged, but the expressions were because they didnt truly understand the underlying theory. Now the characters need to research if they want an analytical understanding of Bladud engines, and to perhaps integrate them into Hermetic magic. The effects of Bladud Engines should always be based around virtues/flaws imo.

This is just what we did, but it was the source of many stories both in and out of Bath (lots of fun things you can do with finding the salts), allows introduction of a mystery cult and can lead to a whole new facet of magic based around the conference/suppression of virtues/flaws imbued into water based on the planets (from the mysteries). So perhaps any of this could be a fun addition?

Oh final thought, if you have gentle gifted character and you overcome the gift, I think you should allow the character to pick new virtues (either 2 if the gift is partially suppressed, or 3 if fully), just as I feel you should allow characters with good [characteristic] to pick a new virtue if your magi develop spells to increase their characteristics. New virtues are ideally developed as part of the story.

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43

To be precise, ML p.16 boxes Effects of the Baths and A Fourth Set of Baths ? offer SG and troupe an option:

Alternatively, choose an effect or effects to tempt the player characters:

I summarized potential consequences for a saga here:

But it is clearly your saga, and you are most welcome to define it and have fun. Transforming Mythic Europe to a troupe's needs is well within the scope of Ars Magica.

44

Well, as to that:

  1. I hope that my saga is set apart from every other. For sheer wonderfulness if nothing else. I'm not planning on making it compliant with some standard other than that needed to allow my players to have fun
  2. And? See TRANSFORMING MYTHIC EUROPE
  3. Does this happen? See remark 1 and the fact that I wouldn't let someone bring in a magus that had advanced in another campaign into mine.
  4. Like HARN all ARS MAGICA supplements are based off 1220 and don't assume that the things there continue to be true in the unexplored future. If in 1230 a magus of Stonehenge announces a new Hermetic Breakthrough (and starts offering shares in a hot tub manufactury) then all I have to do is modify the future and not the past.
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45

What I am wondering about, actually, is if Perdo Vim can be used on another magus to supress the effects of the Gift altogether; i.e. stop them from casting spells for the duration of the Perdo Vim spell. Is there anything like that in any of the books?

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46

That should be possible unless the Gift is part of the magus' essential nature. It is not mentioned in the chapter on Hermetic Limits, so I would be inclined to allow it. Many troupes may require a breakthrough for a new guideline. I am sure the level would be high either way. Does 60 sound fair as a guideline?

47

There is a spell called Paralysis of the Gift, which reduces the casting total for its duration. It's possible to increase the penalty to casting, and to lengthen the spell. But frankly, using this kind of magic is against the oath. Destroying the gift is likely a breakthrough, yes, and just trying to research that kind of spell is likely to get you marched if anyone finds out.

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48

Only if the target too has sworn the Oath, but you are right. Nobody would want to be known to have published the lab text.

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Hermetic magi consider themselves so superior to other gifted that most magi would assume someone working on that spell intends to use it on other hermetic magi, and not think for a minute it could be developped for legitimate reasons like dealing with hedge wizards and rival traditions.

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50

There is a ReVi Guideline on ArM5 p.161 box:

Sustain or suppress a spell cast by another ...

Make sure to apply the errata.

This inspires HoH:S p.129 box New Spell Guideline

Sustain or suppress a spell of a specific type cast by another ...

A useful example there is Quiet the Cursing Tongue.

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51

I was thinking more of supressing the Gift than destroying it. However, I see that various Perdo spells have Momentary durations, e.g. PeCo spells. The damage done is permanent, although PeMe spells all appear to have durations no longer than Moon. As for it being against the Oath, I'd say it depends on how Hermetic Law is interpreted and enforced in any given saga, but there's no crime until a magus actually deprives or attempts to deprive another magus of their Gift. It's certainly not against the Oath if such a spell is used on a magus who's already been cast out of the Order.

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52

The Settuten (African hedge tradition, see Between Sand and Sea p94-106) do have an ability that can suppress the Gift and other Supernatural virtues.

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53

I am not sure what non-momentary Perdo does or may mean. I would have to read through a lot of spells and guidelines to be sure. However, there is always the option of using Muto to change the Gift into Venus' Blessing or some other more or less harm less supernatural air. At least, I would allow that, somewhere in the tenth to twentieth magnitude range.

54

In the case of a spell like Black Whisper, the target is insane for a month. Blessing of Childlike Bliss reduces someone's mind to a child's level but only until sunrise or sunset.

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Thanks for the ref's. I still have to read up, because Mentem is a special case. The mind can in many cases repair itself when Perdo leaves it in an inconsistent state. That's certainly the case when destroying memories. it may or may not explain the present two cases.

56

Suppressing the effects of the Gift is already possible and legal under the existing rules, specifically Art and Academe. The knowledgeable magus simply turns off the capacity of the targets to apprehend that sensation, or even cause it to be considered pleasant. But removing the negative effect of the Gift is such a major change in the game - everyone not a Bjornaer would immediately add that enchantment to their familiar bonds, as it doesn't cause warping, and the Bjornaer would create a formulaic spell for those few times they interact with mortals. (They'd be more likely use it to soothe animals than humans.)

And if everyone uses similar spells, all the time, we'd be better off to simply remove the issue from the game and deal with the conseqences - in particular, rival organizations would be much more organized now that the Gifted can stand in the same room with each other. (This would probably have minimal effect on the Order of Solomon, since the Cradle & Crescent appears to have ignored that little problem - the Gifted magi there work far too closely for a group without the Parma.)

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57

I wasn't thinking of the reaction the Gift causes so the idea of removing the negative effects never occurred to me for a second. Rather I was wondering about how the Gift could be suppressed altogether, stopping a Gifted character from using magic for the duration of the effect. Paralysis of the Gift looks like it would do the job.

58

You can't just add it to a Familiar bond. To affect the target's capacity, you affect their mind, like the canonical ReMe method or the similar PeMe method I mentioned above. But things in your Familiar bond need to target your, your Familiar, or both. So you could do this to make sure your Familiar isn't bothered by your Gift or similar, but that's about it.

Meanwhile, if you use such magic on people constantly, you probably do it in moderate Divine auras with extra botch dice. Enough of it may well Warp people, too, which may be another problem. Most of my magi try to use spells of 5th magnitude and lower so that Warping doesn't become an issue, but that is limiting.

Now, if you could grant the Gentle Gift to a mage via Hermetic magic, that would be something else. But the only way we have to do that right now is Mystery Initiation.

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