ReVi 40 - Touch | Sun | Ind | - Waiting Spell
Unlike a more powerful Watching Ward effect, a waiting Spell effect can only contain one non-ritual formulaic spell of up to level +10 of the containing effect and will only release the contained effect at end of the duration. Only one Waiting spell may be held by an object or person at a time. The carrying item/person will need to transmit the effect by the designed means (touch, voice, sight, AC) for the spell to work. As magi typically renew their parma magica at sunrise/sunset, a well taught Waiting Spell can be quite effective.
(Touch +1 | Sun +2 | Ind +0 | Base 50 (General +5 - Contain an effect))
Not as versatile as a Watching Ward but cheap and effective. Think I removed all the ritual reasons from the WW effect. If allowed, adds to the parma renewal paranoia.
Did I get the big T and small t target interpretation right?
Was going to wait a bit but I also have this more potent version of Watching Ward that would allow for example to bank an Aegis for a rainy day.
ReVi 60 - Touch | Special | Boundary | - Watching Ward, Ritual
As per core book p. Up to level - 20. This version of watching ward allows you to contain boundary effects such as the Aegis of The Earth. As the nature of boundary effects is closely tied to the intended area targeted by the contained ritual, it can only be released upon the same boundary as it was originally cast and only if it is still intact.
(Touch +1 | Year +4 | Bound +4 | Base 40 (General +5))
May have an issue with the Big T and small T thing ... i.e, does it really require it to be Boundary?
Neither watching ward as written nor the spell guideline that it derives from have a provision against using them for ritual spells. I did not find anything in the errata to change this. To my knowledge, you've always been able to put rituals in a standard watching ward.
Watching ward has a target of individual meaning one spell is targeted. I don't think that T Boundary makes any sense in this context.
The waiting spell itself looks fine. But the level calculation with
is unclear. I think that a non-ritual rego vim container spell that casts its contents as it expires is what is implied by the guideline on p161. This is consistent with "The Patient Spell in Magi of Hermes p113 (please ignore the bit in the first paragraph about simultaneous casting it is in error).
The core book tells us that the ritual nature of watching ward is because of the duration but in a stealth rules alteration Rival magic tells us that Hermetic magic can't do the cool triggering stuff in watching ward without a ritual. This leaves the spell you describe (i.e. contained spell goes off as the rego vim spell expires) as the more or less the only sort of non-ritual application of the p161 spell container guideline.
Here is a similar application of the guideline as I see it (from an earlier thread not some sort of a rules argument about level just examples of how I think it works)
and another
This one is weird in that it wasn't quick casting but quick dispelling that I was after. I wrote it up as free but an argument could be made for a level adjustment or it being impossible.
There are a few examples cannon where rituals are required to affect "powerful effects"
p.96. Magical items are created through a type of ritual magic.
p.160. PeVi - Disenchant is a ritual to disenchant the magical ritual of joining
p.128. Quiet the raging winds - "This spells is not strong enough to affect ritual magic"
p.128. TCSR - "and is not powerful enough to dispel a weather condition caused by Ritual magic"
p.160. WB - "This does not allow spontaneous or formulaic spells to reach Year duration or Boundary Target, unless the Wizard’s Boost is a ritual"
A case could be made that ritual magic are powerful effects that require another ritual to be affected by. Makes the paradigm a bit more believable where a spontaneous PeVi does not blow an Aegis away by accident...
I think I find the container guideline too powerful compared it it's Vim peers.
ReVi Container = General +5, General (meaning it can affect all forms with the one spell), Does not matter is you contain your own effect or someone else's
CrVi Shell = General +1, General (meaning it can affect all forms with the one spell), Does not matter is you contain your own effect or someone else's
MuVi Boosts = General +1, Form specific
Sorry I've been spending time with my boys(they're off school for thanksgiving and ferociously battling for every second of my attention) and distracted by star trek online. I'll look at it soon.
i guess that since we're handling the level of the target spell in the base level of the container spell and in the case of watching ward we're specifically allowing multiple spells to be contained the guidelines become rather messed up if you use the target to refer to the spells rather than the warded thing.
this opens up target part as a bit weird, target group as pretty cool and target boundary with a size bonus as a way to emulate the tropes of "if you say the dark lords name you draw his attention" and "using magic draws the attention of others".
I agree that the container guideline is pretty powerful. I like that it was cut back in rival magic to require a ritual if an intellego spell is used. Previous to Rival magic I had a PC in one of my games making lots of use of a duration sun version and it allowed all of the grogs to leave for any task with a selection of sponted and formulaic spells to accomplish their specific goals. It was significantly easier for the magi to keep themselves out of trouble. A duration moon version for covenant defense and intelligence gathering was on the docket to be invented as the game fell apart. After the change I've been less bothered by the power but I've also played less. The targeting of a contained spell seems to be a weird thing. If I contain a BoAF how does it target at the end of its duration?
CErtainly you can make a difference between ritual and non ritual containers. I don't think it is implied, and I'm rather fond of the expensive but fast charged devices/potions that can be created in this fashion.