Non gifted persons/things and magic theory

Games Discussion Ars Magica
21

One reason why magi might not have non-gifted lab assistants is because those assistants are typically either their apprentice or full members of the Order. Both are granted special status by the Code. Outside of House Bonisagus, one cannot just come knock at your sanctum's door and take your apprentice. But otherwise mundane lab assistants are not protected by the Code, except, maybe, by the "diminish one's magical power" clause.

This means that if your assistant one day decides to leave you, you have no recourse against it, even if he decides to go work for another magus. You might bring charges against the magus, but unless he actually influenced your assistant, you're probably out of luck. A very different case from apprentice-snatching.

Then, from a purely mechanical point of view, there is the question of who is allowed to learn Magic Theory at character creation. It takes a virtue like Failed Apprentice to allow it. Again, who else would bother learning it? I see it as a justification for having MT, rather than a requirement to be able to use it at all.

Serf's Parma: In RoP:The Divine, can someone without True Faith assist someone with Ceremonies at all?

After character creation... well you need to persuade your assistant to go ahead and learn something that he'll never be able to use on his own (here's a story for you: your assistant leaves you and joins up with a mystery in the hope of acquiring The Gift).

Now, if you want to rule out completely ungifted people from being assistants, you can limit it to people with a supernatural ability, as was mentioned in that other thread. You can be even more strict and limit it to those which have an associated ability score.

But I think that if a character has, let's say Arcane Lore or Student of Magic, then, you have potential assistant material, gifted or not. They just can't start with Magic Theory.

Finally, you can simply decide that lab assistants must be companion-level characters, thus preventing covenants to just run all their servants through "Introduction to Magic Theory".

As usual, Your Saga May Vary. I choose to disregard the "and has the Gift" provision.

22

Creo Ignem is a good cure against running away lab helpers that know to mutch and that is not protected by the code.

23

Of course. Though it'll make that much harder to recruit, and keep, any more helpers. At least without heavy Mentem magics. :unamused:

24

I'll just give 'em a necklace... it's really to prevent the traps in my Sancta from going off on 'em, 'course, it also does a slight case of CrMe(Re) to instill loyalty or somesuch, or just nukes the bloke if he tries to double cross me. Yes?

25

Friendly theese mages, and the Order wonder why they have problems getting mundanes to work for them. :astonished:

26

Of course , The Order being so poor ,
one has to imprison lab assistants rather than paying them. :unamused:

27

It's almost as if they have the gift to antagonize people. :stuck_out_tongue:

28

It's not that my Magus is poor, in fact he's rather wealthy. He imprisons his apprentices because he's a Tytalus! Imprisonment builds character!

Duh! :smiling_imp:

29

Oh and Fruny,

Welcome to the Master's Club.

Your Master's Cloak and broomstick are in the mail.

30

Why is that always the excuse. :stuck_out_tongue:
My character acts like a scumbag because he is a Tytalus. :unamused:

31

Tuura I hope Tobias did not inprison Lisel or that demonic little kid would make a hell of trubble.

Ok so the Tytalus, keep a sucsesful Covenant handbook says somthing like this:

Have your kitchen workers beat the dogs, have the soildiers beat the kitchen workers, have the lab asistants best the soildiers, have your apprentice beat the lab asistants and you can beat the apprentice.

And if anyone try to beat your familiar, they die.

Everybody is happy. :slight_smile:

32

Hello

I liked the idea of warping assistants so that they a aligned with the realm of magic in order to give them an ability to work in the lab. However I do not believe that it would be that hard to recruit a potential lab assistant. If your magus has the blatant gift, then it would be hard but not otherwise, it just takes some adjustment. In order to get lab assistants you probably should start a school for intelligent youngsters and train and warp them as kids. Or you could convince an adult.

Why would anyone work for a magus in the lab. If they can get over the religious worries about their soul you could simply offer them a better life then what’s possible for most mundane people. If you use the covenant rules for wealth management treat the lab assistant as a specialist an perhaps give him a double salary a increased living standard. That would give most people an incitement to stay, they a provide a good life for their family. Also remember that your lab assistants get free time every time you spends a season reading a book or otherwise not working in the lab. If you are concerned about your assistants loyalty, make him swear an oath of X number of year of service in the exchange for good material benefits. If he breaks his oath there should be a punishment involved.

Thanks for the thoughts

/Max

33

However remember that getting over the worries of their soul is not liely to happen. This is the middle ages, pepole back then was wery, waery superstitious, and in Ars Magica, they were right.

34

which implies that they weren't supersticious... if they we're right...

35

Point taken point taken.

36

Hello

I know that religious worries would be a great issue of many people. But consider the following. First of all we know that there where people that during the middle ages where doing things that where opposed to religious doctrine. For example, lending money, making profit of trade and negotiable affection.

There could be people that over come their religious worries about magi in established covenants with loyal covenfolk. Magi who obviously are God fearing Christians and caring of their underling could recruit lab assistants. Magi in a pagan covenant with pagan covenfolk wouldn’t either have a problem recruiting lab assistants. If the pagan religion doesn’t oppose wizardry. However there would be trouble in recruiting farmer boy Kurt who believes that magi are the devils servants. It all depends on the saga.

That’s all for now.

Max

37

Yes, there is a significant difference between being hired as a cook, soldier or valet to a sorcerer, and actually working with them in their den.

And remember that unless they extend their Parma to you, they are still as creepy as ever. That's one more limiting factor there, and the reason why magi, who can raise their own Parma, would be preferred as assistants.

38

Yes one could find pepole willing to work for mages, you could even find willing lab asistants, but they were not in a grate ambudance. And pepole feared magic a good deal. To describe such fear I love a quote from Wizards`s First Rule, a fantasy book by Terry Goodkind. Magic kills you deader.

Pepole feared for their soul, they feard for everything and mages in Ars are terryfying creatures of unatrual power. It is like you or me shoul be willing to go work for Hanibal Lector.

39

Hello

I agree with you, potential lab assistants are not something you buy at the local market. An other thing that might use some thought are automata. The rules state that you can teach the profession and craft skills but do not mention magic theory or other magus skills. An automata are tuned towards hermetic magic and aligned with the magic realm. If familiars, failed apprentices and really warped humans can learn it, couldn’t automata do that to?

That’s all for now

/Max

40

Well some places you could buy pepole, including folk you could train as lab asistants at the local market. :wink:

Automata might be a solution, but is thy not extremly exspensive to make oer have made for you?