Penetration and Supernatural Abilities

[Jarkman]

IIRC there was a recent thread on Penetration adn Supernatural Abilities which I forgot to save.

Can someone point me to the thread?

I can't seem to find it by using the forum Search function.

Cheers,

Lachie

[Gremlin44]

Are either of these the ones?

https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/penetration-for-divine-methods-and-powers/2958/1

https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/penetration-for-entrancement-and-related-abilities/2167/1

If not, could you please provide some clue as to the content of the topic you're looking for?

[Jarkman]

@Gremlin44

Are either of these the ones?

Penetration for Divine Methods and Powers

Penetration for Entrancement and Related Abilities

If not, could you please provide some clue as to the content of the topic you're looking for?

Hmm, thanks they're close but i think it was in a thread talking about auras and their interactions - someone made a comment about Divine auras nixing most magic aligned Supernatural Abilities ie. making them useless in towns etc.

I can't for the life of me remember the thread but it was within the last few months I think.

Cheers,

Lachie

[Richard_Love]

@Jarkman

Hmm, thanks they're close but i think it was in a thread talking about auras and their interactions...

This one?

Realm interactions

I’ve been looking at Realm interactions and I’ve noticed several things. I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss this... (Since Divine auras seem to be the one that most people have trouble with, all of the following comments assume that the abilities/powers in question are not from a Divine source.) 1.Mages are relatively unaffected. A negative modifier of -9 (the average Divine aura modifier in a populated area) is not overwhelming for the average mage. 2.Accelerated supernatural …

[Jarkman]

@Richard Love

@Jarkman

Hmm, thanks they're close but i think it was in a thread talking about auras and their interactions...

This one?

Realm interactions

Thanks guys. I think that's the one.

I don't think it addresses the issue of whether you can use Penetration with "standard" Supernatural Abilities. IMO this is allowable (after all Summoners use Penetration for their Goetic Arts / Accelerated Abilities) but I'm pretty sure I've seen a reference to how this works with Second Sight etc (which makes sense).

Cheers,

Lachie

[Richard_Love]

@Jarkman

I don't think it addresses the issue of whether you can use Penetration with "standard" Supernatural Abilities. IMO this is allowable (after all Summoners use Penetration for their Goetic Arts / Accelerated Abilities) but I'm pretty sure I've seen a reference to how this works with Second Sight etc (which makes sense).

Yes, if the Supernatural Ability needs to penetrate then you can use the Penetration Ability with it.

This doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who has a Supernatural Ability has the opportunity to learn the Penetration Ability though. For example, maybe some hedge wizard has a Supernatural Ability, but he might not have anyone (or a book) around who can teach him the Penetration Ability. Perhaps, he can just start to practise it without a teacher, perhaps not. That depends on your saga, and might vary on a case by case basis too.

Also some Supernatural Abilities don't need to Penetrate to have their effect, so it's not relevant.

[Ejidoth]

I've often thought Penetration would have been better named 'Sympathetic Magic' or something.

It's not purely hermetic. At least, that's not how it seems to be used. Rather, it represents an understanding of how things link to each other, and how you can use that to get magic in under something else's defenses. Your ability to use representations, true names, horoscopes, arcane connections, and even specific methods for casting the spell (the base bonus if you're not using any multiplier stuff) against someone is based on Penetration. In some form or another, these are aspects of most magic systems, hermetic or not.

[Jarkman]

@Ejidoth

I've often thought Penetration would have been better named 'Sympathetic Magic' or something.

I agree. Not a bad name actually...

It's not purely hermetic. At least, that's not how it seems to be used. Rather, it represents an understanding of how things link to each other, and how you can use that to get magic in under something else's defenses. Your ability to use representations, true names, horoscopes, arcane connections, and even specific methods for casting the spell (the base bonus if you're not using any multiplier stuff) against someone is based on Penetration. In some form or another, these are aspects of most magic systems, hermetic or not.

Again I agree.

It was a bit unclear initially in the life of ArM5, but this seems to be the interpretation running through the later supplements in particular.

Cheers,

Lachie

[Jarkman]

@Ejidoth

I've often thought Penetration would have been better named 'Sympathetic Magic' or something.

I agree. Not a bad name actually...

It's not purely hermetic. At least, that's not how it seems to be used. Rather, it represents an understanding of how things link to each other, and how you can use that to get magic in under something else's defenses. Your ability to use representations, true names, horoscopes, arcane connections, and even specific methods for casting the spell (the base bonus if you're not using any multiplier stuff) against someone is based on Penetration. In some form or another, these are aspects of most magic systems, hermetic or not.

Again I agree.

It was a bit unclear initially in the life of ArM5, but this seems to be the interpretation running through the later supplements in particular.

Cheers,

Lachie