Population, Finances, and Loyalty

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@amul

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

(lots of numbers)

Don't forget that Claudia has a Magical Air, partially offset by familiarity.

Wasn't sure if Claudia should be included in this, as she's not a maga and not in the council. But, assuming that she has as much of an influence on Prevailing Loyalty as the magi of the council do, it works out thusly:

[table][tr][td][u]Magus[/u][/td]
[td][u]Value[/u][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Jamie Lannister[/td]
[td]0 (familiarity)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Constantine Amos[/td]
[td]-30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cygna[/td]
[td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hiems[/td]
[td]-105[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Servus[/td]
[td]-30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Viscaria[/td]
[td]-30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Claudia[/td]
[td]-24*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1213[/td]
[td]-31.286[/td][/tr][/table]

• This is assuming that it takes 15 years of steady, casual contact for a muggle to overcome the social penalty of The Gift, and that this negation occurs at a fairly regular pace (i.e. 2/year for a normal Gift, or Magical Air in this case, and 7/year for a Blatant Gift to go from -105 to 0. Also assuming that Claudia's been in the covenant going on three years; -2/year for 3 years = -6. If it's been 2 years, then her "penalty" would be -26 instead of -24, which has negligible effect on the final average (-31.571)

Including Claudia in the calculations has the net effect of dropping the Prevailing Loyalty from -2 to -3...much the same as removing Serrano and leaving Claudia out of the equation.

Oh, and I also didn't include Serrano in the calculations because it looks to me like he's moved on.

[The_Fixer]

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall a bit in Rival Magic (the muspelli section) where it states that the Blatant Gift takes longer to get acclimated to.
Maybe it is in covenant, too.

But I'm really not sure (serf's parma)

[amul]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

• This is assuming that it takes 15 years of steady, casual contact for a muggle to overcome the social penalty of The Gift, and that this negation occurs at a fairly regular pace (i.e. 2/year for a normal Gift, or Magical Air in this case, and 7/year for a Blatant Gift to go from -105 to 0.

I'm away from my books, but IIRC, the math is clearly laid out in Covenants. I believe that the Gift's penalty is reduced by 2/year regardless of the type of gift (Blatant or otherwise).

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@The Fixer

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall a bit in Rival Magic (the muspelli section) where it states that the Blatant Gift takes longer to get acclimated to.
Maybe it is in covenant, too.

But I'm really not sure (serf's parma)

It could be (haven't read my Rival Magic yet). And I'm really not sure where I got that 15-year figure from, but it sticks in my head for some reason.

[The_Fixer]

I can confirm that 15 years is right for the "normal" gift, so you're at least right about that I'm just not sure about the blatant one.

[ExarKun]

Gift -30
Blatant gift -105

Each year, +2 per familiarity.

=> 15 years for gift
=> +-50 for blatant.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

Finally got around to actually looking for this in the Covenants book. Page 40, center column, under Familiarity:

@"[i

Covenants[/i]"]For every year that a covenant exists it gains two loyalty points. The maximum number of loyalty points that can be gained from familiarity is the quantity necessary to offset the covenant's negative Base Loyalty (that is, the penalty arising from the Gifts of the covenant's magi).

I just like being able to cite stuff...I've had too many bad experiences with gms that just...made stuff up because the players didn't have the books.

So, Amos, Servus, and Viscaria, if they stay that long, would in effect "work off" the penalty in 15 years. Since Hiems has a de facto Blatant Gift (as far as the calculations go), it would take 53 years to work it off. Whereas Cygna would just fit right in.

[amul]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

So, Amos, Servus, and Viscaria, if they stay that long, would in effect "work off" the penalty in 15 years. Since Hiems has a de facto Blatant Gift (as far as the calculations go), it would take 53 years to work it off. Whereas Cygna would just fit right in.

Not "fit in" exactly. There's a small chapter in the MRB on The Gift, and what the effects of it are in different situations. I really wish they'd included the rather obvious "arrives at his new home" example.