Proposed Rulings for New Campaign

Games Discussion Ars Magica
61

My advice if you're relatively new to the system? Stick to the RAW, and ignore all the alarmist ... everything ... on the forums.

A lot of the house rules listed are (as you mentioned) responses from over-reading the forums, but here's a few things I've picked up myself from running a few sagas:

A lot of the things that crop up as 'problem children' for early SGs are actually only problems if you assume that fresh-from-apprentice magi are not that far off what a mature magus is. When you step back and adjust your mindset to look at what a magus who has developed enough to not be a spring chicken is capable of, and the kinds of scores they have, you may adjust some of your views.

In my experience, magi mature into 'summer magi' at around 30 years past apprenticeship. This is not a short space of time, and many sagas don't even get that far and many more sagas make the mistake of assuming that someone with an art of 10 is potent in that art. A mature magus is going to have 20s in their primary arts, and 6-10 in everything else. This is still a relatively young magus! Older magi will either have a whole range of 15-20s or something at around 30-35. Take a look at some of the magi in MoH or at Phillipus Niger in GotF. These aren't 'munchkin' magi - they're just older.

So what does that mean for your saga?

Young fresh-from-apprentice magi are at the bottom of the pecking order. While they're going 'wow!' over a level 10 quality 15 summa, those older magi probably don't care. It's not going to get the trade value the players might think. And tractatus? Unless the magi themselves are writing tractatus, you can assume most of the tractatus in their library have already been read by most of the other magi around. And if these young magi make a song and dance about running a fantastic book trade from their amazing library, just slap them with a wizards-war raid or two by older magi until they learn to stop being so noisy.

Vis experimentation will be unpopular for young magi, because young magi treat teach pawn of vis as if it were a pound of gold. When they're older and sitting on a couple of hundred pawns they might not be so bothered about taking that effort to get hold of a tractatus they haven't read yet - not when that vis is just sitting there.

If your players do all create com +3, great teacher magi then they're obviously serious scholarly types. Sure, their books might be awesome - but quickly give them reputations to support it and the kind of attention (positive and negative) that comes with such. Again, wizard's war is your friend. Don't be afraid of it - it makes for fun stories. Just remember that most wizard's wars (like most fights) don't end with the death of one of the combatants.

All in all, my advice is don't try to hamper the growth and power of the magi unless it proves itself to detract from your enjoyment of the game. Let the system flex its muscles, don't react to the alarmist debates that litter these forums.

Ars Magica isn't the best game to tell stories about struggling against adversity with no assets. It's better for stories where the players have and have access to an incredible range of assets - and it is only with those assets they can triumph.

That said: core rulebook only for starters is a good move. Let other things drift in as needed, or you'll find yourself overwhemed.

62

:unamused:
I'm sorry, but, however you may call it, in practice, this is exactly what you do, as I showed earlier.

Not that there are a lot of options about what magical resistance can do to a physical thing.

63

Er... It doesn't help you against magical senses, but classical scrying (ie. Summoning the Distant Image or The Eye of the Sage, yes it does. Same with (most) InMe effects.

You mean except for the bit on p. 89?

64

It takes you 2 minutes of struggle to determine if you go into twilight or not, so you can be knifed if you choose to resist it.

Xavi

65

Kid Gloves, thank you greatly. This is absolutely gold. I was scared of wizard's war at first (I don't want to kill off my characters) but once you realise that wars aren't meant to be lethal, they become a lot more acceptable, and a lot more fun.

[quote]
When you resist Twilight, you spend a diameter struggling against it. During which time, someone can shiv you. And probably will, if they're in a fight against you.

66

...which is why the preceeding page notes that

Sure, granting people Twilight is a very nice trick, but by no means assures you of a chance to knife them.

If it's your life on the line, vs the risk of a bad twilight, wouldn't you take the risk, every time?
So no, you can't "make them resist twilight".

67

Effectively incapacitating a magus or maga is generally more than enough! Remove him/her, kill everybody else (if that was your objective) and move away. If the magus is protecting something he is no longer a treat, for example. Giving warping to save your skin is something we have seen done by magi TO THEMSELVES. If you are the last magus standing and a drago is about to eat you, going on a tour of the magic realm might be a worthwhile thing :slight_smile:

Xavi

68

Entirely true!

69

I am amused by the thought of the following scene:

BADASSIUS EX FLAMBEAU walks into his lab.

APPRENTICE: Master, weren't you out on a war?

BADASSIUS: Yes, I was. I'm home now, though. Places a heavy bad onto the table and starts taking off his stained travel clothes.

APPRENTICE: Did you win? Starts unpacking his master's bags.

BADASSIUS: He escaped into Twilight. If what I hear about his age is true, he won't get out before the moon turns and the war ends. So it was a draw, I suppose. Never mind, can't win them all.

APPRENTICE: Master... why is this bag entirely full of human hair?

BADASSIUS: Oh, that. I cut off all his hair to turn into arcane connections and sell to everyone who dislikes him. You're going to be a busy little lab monkey fixing those.

70

I find the idea of casting The Enigma's Gift (or some lesser variant that gives only two warping points) on someone to open up an opportunity to create a twilight episode as an opportunity for an attack to be unlikely.

There are Creo experts and there are Vim experts, but I don't believe there are very many if any Creo Vim Experts. So, let's start with this being a 20th level spell, as I suggested a variant above, per the guidelines at voice range. Let's move onto what a pretty average Hermetic magus opponent might look like from a defensive standpoint. Say Parma 3 (30 xp) and Vim 5 (15). His Vim MR is 20. You need a CT of 41 to bestow two warping points on him.

Now let's look at the magus who can cast the spell described above with a CT of 41. A stock magus without affinities or puissant or even a heavy specialization requires ~420 xp to get Arts scores to 20. There are other parts of the CT to be sure, but I leave it as an exercise to the reader to design the character. You can shave off some xps and get to CS of 20 more cheaply and virtues and flaws will go along way towards making that achievable. To get there, trade-offs had to be made, and we hadn't even discussed the specialties of the character defending from The Enigma's Gift variant.

And that character that does exist and uses Creo Vim as a weapon will likely find himself the receipt of many Wizard War notices once his modus operandi is discovered.

The Flambeau combat monkey/fire expert who can put 40 points of penetration into Pilum of fire due to his high arts scores, magical focus, spell mastery in Pilum to allow him to multicast 6 of them, fast casting and high quickness ensures that he strikes first. He's a gun for hire, and this is the right kind of job for him to take. Oh, the Creo Vim spell inflicting warping still goes off, but then that's why he learned Unravelling the Form of Vim at 10th level and mastered it for fast casting.

Giving oneself two warping points to avoid combat is pretty achievable, though, it's a 10th level effect: Base 10 R:Per, D:Mom, T:Ind and since it is personal bypasses magic resistance. Still need a pretty high Creo or Vim Art score to pull it off, but it is doable.

As to collecting an AC while a magus is in twilight, if they can't be harmed, I have a bit of a problem with someone being able to collect something from them. I'd encase them in amber à la Fringe. They are completely unassailable, including the items they are holding or wearing. That doesn't prevent someone from transporting that block somewhere else, though...

71

I've seen one player build a CrVi 'I give you warping!' magus - and he was very sore when it came to wizardly fisticuffs and discovered his opponent knew his tactic and had mastered the same spell for resistance. Being a one trick pony has its problems.

To pull off a CrVi 10 spontaneously and reliably you need a Creo of 10 and a Vim of 10. Your average fresh-from-Gauntlet magus won't do this, but most non-specialist master-level (30-40 years post Gauntlet) magi won't be too far off that mark. Creo and Vim are both arts useful enough to dedicate some time and effort to - and 10 is a good 'good enough' limit to aim for. Creo because longevity potions, Vim because ... well, it's Vim. It's useful.

As for arcane connections... I too would disallow the taking of arcane connections from an 'in twilight' body. That said, if you've knocked them out for the turn of the moon, then you may well have access to arcane connections of other kinds: their posessions, their talisman, etc.

For both Certamen and Wizard's War, three things to consider are:

  • Hermetic Reputations. A reputation will colour someone's tactics.
  • Organisation Lore : Order of Hermes. Good rolls here may mean you know stuff about your target magus, or the magus attacking you. Anything from favored arts to favored tactics.
  • Intrigue : especially for Certamen. Intrigue could be used to arrange so that they are the challenger. Being the defender in Certamen has significant advantages - especially if you know what forms they are known for using.

And finally:
Wizard's War against an entire covenant means items held in common by all the magi become valid targets too. An elder magus who is getting annoyed with a spring covenant of junior magi may well declare war on the whole bunch all at once. His target may not be any of the magi - he might just swan in using stealth spells and rob their library then acquire a bunch of arcane connections for 'next time.' Wizard's War, so it's entirely legitimate.

72

I had forgotten what a powerful thing Hermetic reputation was. I feel foolish now, given that I'd recently explained to someone how utterly vital noble reputation was, using examples from Song Of Ice And Fire to illustrate the concept of a prudhomme.

Personally, I can see Creo Vim being a fairly common secondary combination for anyone (Aegis-putter-upper, Verditius enchanter, et cetera) who needs a while pile of Vim vis. Sure, specialists in that combination are rare, but a lot of people who like Vim are going to have some Creo kicking around so that they can refine themselves some vis.

Finally, it strikes me as a very Criamon way to fight. It doesn't harm the person, but it shuts the fight down until they return, and even gives the target a chance to learn some wisdom. How very apt.

1 Like
73

If your group really are a spring covenant filled with fresh-from-Gauntlet magi without a mature magus amongst them, I'd suggest giving them a few cuffs around the ear from an elderly Tytalus magus who is trying to teach them why they can't just sit back and assume the world will leave them in peace.

I can imagine such a magus wizards-war'ing the whole bunch specifically with the intent of just reminding them that they're young. If you have a Tytalus magus with the 'Tormenting Master' flaw, this works even better! If you really want to rile them up, give them a big pile o' vis as a reward in spring (more than you typically would) then have some senior magus come take it all off them again in autumn. Ideally after using spells to paralyze them all so he can taunt them as he does so. Maybe rub the vis in their faces a little (literally) before leaving with it. You know that you're still on track for your intended reward schedule, but your players don't. And they will get a serious hate-on for your senior magus. Serious. They may even dedicate a few years specifically to getting revenge.

Here's a few other tidbits for a mean senior magus:

  • The Code does not forbid another magus from entering your lab. It gives you the right to nuke 'em if they do, but if they walk in and out of your lab, stopping to browse your books along the way, they have committed no breach of the Code. There is therefore nothing stopping a senior magus from showing up to a covenant of junior magi and simply walking in to a lab to nosey around. A little legedemain and they may even have an arcane connection - to you or to your lab - that they can use later.

  • The Code does not forbid the use of Certamen to impose action or behavior on another magus provided that behavior doesn't breach the Code. Denying someone seasons of service or study via Certamen is trouble, but forcing them to allow you to attend their Covenant council meetings is just fine.

As long as you don't overuse tactics like this, you can really pull the players' strings with regards to dragging them out of their 'magic for numbers sake' mentality. When they realise they aren't the biggest fish in the pond, they'll react.

1 Like
74

Kid Gloves:

Nice ones!

If half my players didn't read this forum, I'd soooo be stealing this!

75

I'm using this.

76

SG: It's the first day of autumn. The usual redcap comes around to the covenant, looking sombre. He hands each of you a letter - a declaration of Wizard's War from Gratis of Tytalus - stating wizard's war will begin on the next full moon. You have a month to prepare.
Players: What? Who is that?
SG: Make an Order of Hermes Lore roll (remember: 0xp means no roll allowed).
Player who actually took OoH Lore: <roll, total of 7>
SG: Gratis is a senior magus of the tribunal - about fifty years out of apprenticeship - with a reputation for successfully engaging in Wizard's War.
Players: What? That's not a fair challenge!
SG: Mmmhmm. So you have a month to prepare. What do you do?

chaos ensues

The following ten minutes will generate a list of 'we must do this now!' lab projects and suchlike that aren't about building big numbers, but are about scrabbling some defense right now. Someone may even realise that the best defense against this kind of behavior is to make allies with other powerful magi. Alliances that come with requirements of their own (stories) and problems of their own (stories).

77

This just reeks of being jobbed by the SG. If there had been some antagonism between the declaring NPC and the PCs, sure, I can see it. Doing it out of the blue? Having a history of doing this would draw the ire of Quaesitores...

78

If done as part of a tormenting master flaw (and, as previously mentioned, the purpose of the wizard's war is not to TPK the covenant) then it can be an interesting story. Or it could be part of a 'hermetic politics' hook. Or many other story hooks, for that matter. As long as it leads to a narrative that is interesting for everyone then I don't see a problem. It's the opening of a story arc. The first blow. The thing that makes the players go 'we have to deal with this a**hat, and soon!'

It doesn't have to have prior warning, and if it is a Tytalean magus trying to get the covenant to improve their defenses, etc. then it probably wouldn't come with a warning. He'd anger and embarass them enough to get a reaction, and then his job is done.

A scenario like that needs to ultimately end in the players getting some kind of closure on the situation. Satisfaction that they got the better of the tormentor - either directly (by stealing his stuff or kicking his behind) or indirectly (by maintaining the moral high-ground and having that mean ultimately triumphing).

As for Quaesitoral involvement: it depends largely on the tribunal and on how much support the magus in question has. And on the views of the tribunal as a whole on spring covenants - especially spring covenants without the backing of a more established group.

Granted, this kind of thing isn't for everyone. But I have so far got the feeling that Wizards War is a grossly under-utlised thing, and sagas are worse off because of it. For people wanting to have a game with hermetic politics, with a balance between scholarly learning and safety, for avoiding the 'book factory grind' - this is one way to achieve that: by ensuring the players are prioritising development beyond just their library - defenses, political allies, networks for information, awareness of the other magi of the tribunal.

SGs should not be afraid to hurt the player characters in their group - provided it is done for the betterment of the saga and not for personal jollies. Adversity is the stuff great stories are made of.

79

Sure, WW can be useful. As you presented it though, an unknown NPC declares WW and he has done this before (reputation). Why? What Tribunal allows this kind of behavior? How many times has he done it? Is he at risk of getting prosecuted, as he seems to be making declarations simply because he can. Why haven't all of his previous targets combined to declare WW against him?

80

To harvest the covenant for resources. If he's at war, and is good enough that he's largely impervious to their spells, then he can just walk in, help himself to their stuff, and then walk out. He wouldn't kill them: a farmer doesn't slaughter his milk cows and an orchard-keeper doesn't chop down his fruit trees. He needs them to rebuild and restock for the next harvest.

It depends on how independent you see covenants as being. As long as he only picks on Spring covenants, the large, powerful Autumn ones might not care that much. He's not bothering them, they've got important research projects to work on, they don't care that much. They might even tacitly endorse such bullying, if it keeps the Spring covenants too weak to challenge them for vis sources and apprentices. If you want a very negative Order, then he might even send them a few of the especially good books he steals, now and then, as a "thank you for turning a blind eye".

You can't prosecute someone for declaring a wizard's war. I seem to remember that from the Guernicus chapter of HoH:TL. You can declare war on them, of course.

Once they get big enough to take him on, he stops being a threat to them. Sure, they probably bear a considerable grudge, but by now, they might have bigger problems to cope with.

Plot idea: This Tytalus mage isn't a professional bully. It's a sideline, yes, but what he spends most of his time doing is something intensely useful to senior magi. Demon-hunting, for example, or being the guy who has a knack for negotiating with senior clergy and striking pragmatic arrangements over vis sources, tithes, clerical obligations and similar delicate areas. Something useful enough that people will overlook his little "peccadilloes" such as running protection rackets on barely-out-of-apprenticeship magi.